Turning Trials into Triumph | Nikki Lindgren

Nikki Lindgren | Turning Trials into Triumph

[00:00:00]

Matt Edmundson: Well, hello and welcome back to Push To Be More. I'm your host Matt Edmundson and we are about to dive into another deep exploration of what fuels the journey called life. Now joining me today, I have a very special guest, uh, Nikki Lindgren from Pennock.

We are going to be diving into her unique life experiences, the hurdles she has had to push through, the ways. She gets to recharge her batteries and what steps she's taking to be more really looking forward to Nikki's story. Now don't forget, you can find all our detailed show notes and transcript, uh, over at Push to Be more.com.

Uh, push to be more.com and of course, you know not to pull the wall over everybody's eyes. You can actually get all the links. [00:01:00] In the show notes, which will be on the podcast play that you're listening to this on as well, or in the description on YouTube. Uh, but if you do head over to the website, pushtobemore.

com, why not sign up to our newsletter? Uh, because each week we'll send you all of the stuff straight away to your inbox. All the links, transcripts and notes, everything, it just goes straight through to your inbox, which is great. Makes it all super easy. Now, this episode is proudly powered! I love that.

Proudly powered by PodJunction, the company that helps build your businesses with podcasting. It is the magic behind the scenes that lets entrepreneurs and business leaders like you and me amplify our voices, market our businesses and do all of that crazy good stuff with podcasting. Podcasts. Podcasting, let me tell you, is one of those, it's one of those untapped marketing resources that you've got access to right now.

It's a unique moment in time. That's why I can tell you where podcasting is [00:02:00] concerned. I was talking to a chap yesterday who is totally killing it with podcasting. He's tripled his revenue in his company. He's getting more and more leads with podcasts. Here's podcast, super excited to hear what's going on because it is a unique thing.

Now I get it. What are you going to do? What are you going to talk about? How are you going to make all this thing work? How do you get to grow your client base? Well that's where PodJunction steps in. They are the crew that makes sure your show goes on flawlessly. You get to do what you love, which is just chat to incredible people and PodJunction will take care of the rest, even the strategy.

They'll even help you set that up. So if you're wondering whether podcasting is the missing piece to your growth puzzle, check out Podjunction. You can find out more information at podjunction. com. So let's meet Nicky, the savvy marketeer turned, uh, agency founder. I mean, let's just put it that way, who's all about turning challenges into triumphs.

After experiencing the hurdles [00:03:00] of in house marketing firsthand, she created Pennock, the dream agency she wished for back in the day. Now she's the go to guru for seven figure beauty brands and lifestyle brands, driving their growth. With her killer media buying and SEO wizardry. Nikki, welcome to the podcast.

It's great to have you on. Great to talk to you again, actually, because we did an episode for the eCommerce Podcast, now we're on Push, chatting away. How we doing?

Niki Lindgren: Great, Matt. Thanks for having me back. I'm excited to be on a new show with you.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. This is a different one. Different type of one. If you want to know Nikki's eCommerce secrets, you're going to have to check out the episode we recorded on the eCommerce podcast.

Uh, but let's dig in. Let's get straight into it, Nikki. First question. I love, I love to ask everybody. We were chatting before we hit the record button, you're hoping to be launching a podcast at some point soon. So. If you could have anybody on your podcast, you know, the show's sponsored by Podjunction, so we love to ask this [00:04:00] question.

Any guest on your show from your past or your present, as long as they've had a big influence on your life, who would you have on as a guest and why?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, um, it's a wonderful question. Big influence might be a bit of a stretch, but someone I'm very inspired by is Barbara Corcoran of Shark Tank and the Corcoran Group.

Um, I just love that she had such a rough early adult life and went on to, um, Get offers to sell her business. I think first for like, you know, 20 million or something. And she kept pulling out and no one knew why. And she's like, I need to get to 66. Uh, and you know, finally someone came in above that. And so she just has this like gut reaction to how business should work.

Whenever I'm in a hard spot, I'm like, well, what would Barbara do? Uh, and so I would love to hear. Meet with Barbara and hear from her firsthand. So that's what I would have.

Matt Edmundson: That sounds like a great guest. I have to be honest with you a full transparency. I've never seen Shark Tank. [00:05:00] I think it's similar to a show called Dragon's Den, which is what it's called here in the UK.

Am I right?

Niki Lindgren: Yep. You're 100%.

Matt Edmundson: Okay, so I get the show format. So she's one of the Successful business people who decide I'm in or I'm out in terms of investing in your business.

Niki Lindgren: Yep, exactly. Yeah. So that's, that's her role there. Um, and she gives great advice. Um, she takes a lot of risks and, uh, I think she has good intuition into how she's going to grow and move.

And she started at a young age and she's still, she's still doing it.

Matt Edmundson: Still doing it. Fantastic. Well done for holding out for the money. It's always impressive. Um, I, I, I've never been in a situation where someone's offered me twenty million and I've turned it down. So I can't, I can't empathize. How important is it, um, for you to have good, strong female business role models like Barbara?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, I think that's really important. I [00:06:00] mean, you know, learning from a lot of men, too. It's, it's not to discredit the other gender or anything, but I do find a little bit more of a connection to what the women have been doing, and so for me, that's a little bit more of the push, is to, um, see how they've done it.

And I think, while I haven't come from as much struggle or difficulty as Mar uh, Barbara has, I just think. Kind of coming from a place of nothing and then doing what she did, which, you know, is a ton of people's stories, not just hers. It's just really inspiring.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, we love those kind of stories, don't we?

The, the sort of the rag, the real rags to riches, or as someone outside from the States, you know, this finding and living the American dream, isn't it? You know, you can, if you work hard enough, you, you can build anything, uh, type of a type of an affair. And I think we are drawn to those stories. Have you? I mean, you run your own agency now.

Have you always sort of wanted to run your own business? Um, was this something you stumbled into? Was it [00:07:00] a dream since you were a kid? How did it come about?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, so I think, uh, as As a young person, like elementary, middle school, I wanted to be really important at a big corporation. So it's like I was going to have a, you know, corner office, high floor, like that was my whole thing.

Um, my dad started his own business, which he's a, he does auto body, so he's, was fixing cars and so very different type of business, but it was his and he got to grow it and hire and all that fun stuff. So I think I had both this, like, uh, A high level of importance needed to be part of my MO. Like I wanted people to think like I was moving and shaking, uh, surface level needs.

And then, um, my dad being an entrepreneur, it kind of led me to want to go in the

entrepreneurial lane. So I had that itch from the beginning. And then I think in, as I started working, I just, You know, it was kind of one of those cocky 20 year olds. I was like looking at my bosses and being like, they've got all these flaws, like, I could do this.

And I had great bosses, right? But, you know, you get to be very judgy when [00:08:00] you're young, and it's part of being young. Um, and so I kept kind of reflecting that, you know, if I were in this role, I would do it different, da da da. And eventually, uh, Um, yeah, I, I thought I was going to start a product business, not an agency.

So I did actually attempt that for a very short period of time, like doing the, um, getting ready to do a crowd funded launch type thing. Um, but really what I am so good at and had so much experience in was not product. I was helping product brands, but I was doing the marketing. So it just seemed like a natural evolution.

It wasn't sort of like a. I give up. This is the easiest way to do it. I'll be an entrepreneur this way, but that's kind of how it came together. It's like, I knew I wanted to, um, work for myself. I could be important at my own business. Um, if I'm scratching my elementary itch need and, um, it's what I was best suited to do.

Matt Edmundson: So I'm kind of curious. You know, I smile when you say, you know, when you're 20 and you look at your boss and you go, they don't know anything, because I remember thinking the same thing about [00:09:00] people older than me when I was that age, because when I was 18, 19, 20, I knew everything. I mean, I mean, I wish I still had that talent, right?

It'd have been nice to have kept that. Um, but I'm, I'm kind of curious, you know, you're, You, this desire to be, um, successful, this desire to be great and known, um, where did that come from?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, that's interesting. I feel like I could be talking to a therapist right now, um, so I, Pennock is named after my hometown, which is like a town of 400 people in rural Minnesota, and so I think, you know, I grew up before the internet, and so like, it just felt like I was on an island in the middle of.

You know, the flat plains of Minnesota, and it just felt like I was really in the wrong place. And so for me, just getting out and like, you know, um, yeah, making something like leaving my hometown and, and kind of breaking the norms of what most families were doing locally was [00:10:00] just a huge interest of mine.

And I think I would like, Knock down any door or break through any window to make that happen. Um, I left and I went to San Diego for college and I was super ambitious. Like every internship opportunity or opportunity to like learn and get my foot in the door somewhere was so important for me. And I think some of my classmates were like, Slow down, like, why are you so gung ho to get somewhere?

And it was just such a, like, a passion of mine. I couldn't stop myself or hold myself back.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's really interesting. That's really interesting. I, I mean, I've never been to that, that part of, of, of your fabulous country. So I can't, but I can picture the small town in my head. You know, it's, um, there's the movie, uh, that springs to mind is Doc Hollywood, you know, the one with Michael J.

Fox and, uh,

I can't remember

Matt Edmundson: the lady's name, but she wants to escape, uh, and he gets sort of trapped and wants to escape, and they end up, anyway, it, it does fascinate me how, um, [00:11:00] people that do grow up in that sort of environment do want to escape. Um, uh, if, if that's right, phraseology. And that actually is quite a big driver, you know, just to see a bigger world, which is, well, it's, it's, it's quite a noble thing in many ways, isn't it?

And, um, I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued to know, how long has the agency been going now?

Niki Lindgren: Almost five years. So we started right as the pandemic.

Matt Edmundson: Perfect time to start a new business. Yeah.

Good timing. As they say, good timing.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Has it, has it been everything you expected it to be, or has it been better, has it been worse? Did you not know what to expect?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, it's definitely been different. So when, before I started as the proper agency, I had freelance helpers that, you know, I found on Fiverr and Upwork and brilliant at what they did, but just very [00:12:00] challenging to like communicate or get feedback.

To have a sense of urgency around what we were doing. So I knew that as great as freelancers are, like it just wasn't in my Nature to work with them because I was too nervous all the time about like, why are they not putting out these fires? So that's when I made the moment to say like, I'm going to hire my first full time employee.

I had a client who was large enough now to cover a salary I wanted and another salary. So it's like, this is the moment I'm just jumping in. Um, yeah. And then. Like a week after she started the pandemic hit, so that was like literally the timing of where we were, uh, and I had built out the projection model, so like I knew where we were going to go year over year and like the growth and blah, blah, blah, um, nothing like what actually has happened, and I don't think, had I known what this actually looks like in practice, I don't think I would have I don't think I would have shied away from it, but I think I would have prepared a little bit differently.

I think, like, people management skills, like, difficult situation skills, um, [00:13:00] SOPs at the beginning. Like, we didn't have SOPs for like a year and a half. Our standard operating procedures of, like, how everybody's supposed to act and work in their, um, you know, day to day operations. So, there's a lot of things I probably would have prioritized that I chose not to, um, until I was like, You know, um, oh, this has happened like five times.

I should probably learn by now. So yeah, it's definitely been a huge learning curve. And as much as I always wanted to be my own boss, it's actually hard not to have someone to hold me accountable. Um, so I kind of miss having a boss who can you know, say your deadline was this, like, what's the status? And I can be like, Oh, I haven't started yet.

Um, things like that, right? Because I think you get to give yourself as much, uh, you know, leeway as you want or hold yourself as accountable as you want. And I've been choosing to prioritize our immediate client needs over our business needs, um, which makes sense. We're a service based business, but it's kind of, um, You know, put, put a slowness [00:14:00] on in terms of like our growth curve.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. It's always an interesting tension, isn't it? I find, um, those things. One of the things that, um, I did, the company that we have now, we sold our last company, but the company that I have now, when we started it, um, like you, I, I appreciate if you run your own company, it's a very different set of expectations upon yourself.

And one of the things that I, I wanted in the new co was to have a board. And so we put a board in that company. Um, one of the directors works with me in the business. She, she owns a chunk of the business. Um, uh, I, I own the controlling share, but she's definitely a big chunk of it. And it was great to have, uh, Michelle involved, but also I didn't want a board of two people because, well, what happens if you hit stalemate?

Now I could pull that. Well, I own the majority of the business, therefore we're going to do what I want kind of cod, but I felt that that was slightly unfair to Michelle, really. Um, [00:15:00] and so we had Graham came on as a chief exec, of the board. Now it's a small company, it's a small board, you know, fancy titles for chief exec, but Graeme is very good at holding me to account.

He thinks very differently to me, he asks questions of me that I've never even thought of.

Right.

Matt Edmundson: And I actually quite like that. I, I think I would miss it if I didn't have it now. If that makes sense. And so I'm a big fan of the board. I'm a big fan of the non exec. Um, uh, I'm a big fan of the chair of the board kind of idea.

Um, but I appreciate even as a small company that might not make sense, but I still think I would do it. Even if it was just me and another person. Do you know what I mean? I think it's quite a helpful thing. Um, so challenges then. Let's talk about that. You know, you said that you didn't have the challenges maybe that Barbara had, you know, but I'm assuming there have been some in life.

Niki Lindgren: [00:16:00] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I think, like, for me, growing up in this small town called Pennock in rural Minnesota, my parents were very much, um, you know, working class. So we were, my dad had his business, doing his specialty, and my mom was working for the schools, doing a couple things. Um, my dad had a two year degree, my mom did not go to college, and so I was surrounded by people like that.

So when I knew I wanted to take education seriously, they weren't actually that strict. Helpful. Um, right. Ignored by being that serious about school as a student. So the options I had for college were not as great as, you know, I probably wanted them to be. And in retrospect, you know, that that was a, a thing that really hung me up in my twenties, in, in my head at least.

So I went to a fashion school first Mm-Hmm, , and I didn't even know it was a two year degree. Until I got there. Um, and then I was super mad at my mom because I was like, how could you, you know, how could you agree to put me here? So I've put a lot of blame on her for that. Eventually went to, you know, onto my four year degree, et cetera, [00:17:00] but I really felt that I didn't, Because I didn't have a good school on my resume, that was going to hurt me.

So that was my first, like, big, you know, big air quotes at that. I was just feeling like, um, I was competing with a lot of people here locally who went to, um, Berkeley or Stanford, um, or, you know, came in from the East Coast schools. So there was a lot of competition that I felt like, you know, my internships, et cetera, were a path forward since I wasn't going to be able to have that academic.

So that was the first, um, kind of thing in my mind. That was. Throwing me off. But because I was working for early stage startups and smaller agencies, it ended up working out just fine because they were valuing, um, experience over . So I used it to my advantage, right? So I think I was being really smart to play my cards right in that favor.

Like my first job was corporate. Pottery Barn, which is a big retail chain here in the U.

S.,

Niki Lindgren: they probably have a couple international locations, um, and I was, there I was actually struggling to move up, and I think that I [00:18:00] was maybe a little bit of an outsider by their standards, right, so, um, when I realized that, you know, maybe I didn't have the right background

and

Niki Lindgren: experience to compete with the eight people next to me for one, one level up, there was only one opening at a time.

Um, I just moved. So those were, those are really kind of like the early 20s struggles, if you will, that I just went through. Um, yeah. My next was taking a bad decision to go to a company where they were, um, outside of my wheelhouse in terms of their service and offering, and they were creating a new role that they didn't really have a definition for.

So, really hard to set that up for success, and within the first six months, uh, I was put on a, uh, PIP, Performance Improvement Plan. And I have 30 days to figure out how to make this ambiguous school happen or they were firing me. And so, you know, that was a huge gut punch to, to be like, Oh my God, I'm, this is impossible.

They don't, like none [00:19:00] of us know how to make these 30 day metrics occur, so I'm definitely getting fired. Um, so that was a hard moment too, to just kind of, you know,

Matt Edmundson: hit your record. I bet it was especially because you're, I mean, listening to your story, your desire to, for the corner office and to grow, do you know what I mean?

And to, to grow the corporate ladder to, to sort of greatness, if you like, and here you are being threatened with being fired as that's kind of, that's got a great, I appreciate that's going to great.

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, exactly. So that, that was what happened next. Um, but I rebounded quickly. I actually took a risk with another company, but it was eCommerce.

It was just the role was something I personally hadn't done a ton of. And. You know, it seemed like it was going to be a good fit between the company, the people at the company and myself. So I went with it and that's where I learned a lot of the skills that my team are, they're still doing today. And it like leaped me to the next role I had, which was the most senior in house role I was able to secure before [00:20:00] going, um, agency side.

But I think in there, what I didn't unfold was, um, A really good story for me, which is interesting. I worked at an agency that helped entertainment brands sell eCommerce products, and we rev shared with our clients. So these are like the HBOs, NBCs, um, even sports teams, anything that was selling merch, we kind of have relationships to run their eCommerce store, to make their merchandise and source it, uh, and then do their marketing.

And I learned a ton there. I grew a team faster than anywhere else I had been and moved up the ladder also faster than anywhere else I had been. And it was like. The best job of my career prior to this one. Um, and the most interesting thing about it is I'm still friends with a lot of people who work there, which is a good sign, but it was all of their worst jobs.

So it was interesting how what I really drew inspiration and passion from and, you know, a career out of was the low points of their careers.

Matt Edmundson: It's interesting how that can work sometimes, isn't it? It, uh, [00:21:00] you know, we are all wired differently. I used a trite saying, I suppose, in many ways. We've maybe often overused it as an expression, but it's so true that, um, stuff that I find really interesting, people just look at me and go, you're mad.

But then stuff that they find interesting, I'm like, what is wrong with you? I don't understand how you would even find that remotely interesting. And that I think is a celebration of the diversity of the human race in many ways. And I'm very grateful for it because I think if we're all wired the same, we'd be in deep, deep trouble.

Niki Lindgren: Right. And life would be pretty boring if we all had had the same share of everything.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, it would, it would. So out of all of that then, what was the biggest challenge, do you think, the biggest setback, difficulty that you had to sort of overcome?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, I think, um, I think it might be just figuring out how to move, you know, keep the agency, uh, growing.

So because, you know, I've kind of been this [00:22:00] outsider in my mind, outcast to some extent, you know, we've done a great job of hiring. I really strong team members, but I still don't have the, um, the, the Rolodex of contacts like, like one could have in my role. So I think one of the biggest challenges is the one I'm currently in, which is finding a way to scale the business to a new level.

We've done really good at 10%, 20 percent year over year growth, but we haven't found that moment of elevating us to another rung on the ladder.

Matt Edmundson: It's an interesting one, isn't it? I, again, as a, uh, running my own business and owning a business, fundamentally, new customer acquisition is one of the chief, especially in eCommerce.

There are some key things in eCommerce you have to monitor, I think. There's a, you know, you always need to know how many, the number of new customers that you've achieved this month. That's one of the key metrics. I, with my eCommerce businesses, I'm like, on the board, I want to see new customer acquisition and I want to see returning customers.

[00:23:00] And I want to understand the breakdown of those two things because, um, one, if my returning customers is going down, our service is not good enough. And if our new customer rate's not where it should be, our marketing's not good enough, we're not bringing in, you know, our acquisition strategy is not right.

And so, and I also appreciate that having run my own business like yourself now, um, it's probably one of the scariest, um, Most daunting parts of running the business is like, how do I, how do I get the funnel? How do I grow the funnel? There are a few people which really enjoy that, but we tend to go into businesses doing stuff that we like, like I'm assuming you love what you do as an agency, you like the work, you, you like all that sort of stuff.

So it's easy to get sucked into that and not actually go and get the clients. Um, right. Which is the whole point of the book of the e myth, isn't it? Michael Gerber's e myth. But, um, how have you found that, the whole customer acquisition thing? Do you find it daunting? Do you find it pretty straightforward?

Niki Lindgren: [00:24:00] Um, I would, I would say that I find that tactics, um, cringe, cringeworthy, you know, so I feel like it's, um, I feel like we're still trying to find the lane that feels the most authentic to us, because the lanes that we are attempting to tackle are lanes that I think are really saturated all over already.

And it's just maybe not putting us

in the right place.

Niki Lindgren: Out there in the best light. So that's probably the part of it that bothers me the most and is probably why of the most important things I could be doing. It should be this, but it's sort of bottom up the list.

Mm-Hmm. .

Niki Lindgren: Um, so, so that's kind of like my overall feeling for it.

And also the coupler's kid has no shoes, right? Like it's. We're too busy doing our client stuff, so we only do our stuff when there's time. So I think putting together the right team to dedicate to it is definitely necessary and I've just been dragging my feet. So those are, those are the statements I have for it.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough, [00:25:00] fair enough. So do you, um, do you think then when it comes to new customer acquisition, yeah, I fully appreciate what you say when you say it feels a bit cringe, the sort of the, the current day tactics. Do you have a feel for maybe how you would do it differently? How you would enjoy?

I'm just trying to pick your brains a little bit, maybe you've got something I can steal if I'm honest with you, Nikki, but I'm, I'm, I'm genuinely curious.

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, I think going through the more, um, organic growth approach is going to help us. So, um, doing podcasts, having our own podcast, getting our own content out there, rather than like the cold emails, the cold LinkedIn messages, etc.

I think we'll be, Key to success. But again, since we haven't prioritized ourself as a, as a customer of our services, we just are scratching the surface there. So I think it's sort of [00:26:00] the chicken or egg problem. And we, we have, you know. Notoriously been a little overstaffed, I would say, on our team, which to me is a good thing, but somehow like the work kind of keeps creeping in or keeping us busy enough that there's, you know, only like 30 minutes left in someone's day to start working on our brand.

And at that point, they'd rather, you know, log off and start their family life or have a cocktail, whatever it is.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's fair. Which is fair enough. Um, it's interesting. I, if you're a top tip, if I can do a slight plug here, um, the Podjunction podcast is a really good podcast on how to use podcasting to grow your business.

I

Niki Lindgren: think you've told me that before. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: yeah, yeah. The, the, the podcast that Sadaf does, I, I get to sit in on the podcast. Sadaf mainly does the whole thing, to be fair, and I chat about it with her. Um, is, uh, I just love the guests and the stories that they have for using podcasts [00:27:00] to grow their business.

And so can highly recommend that. Um, because I think you're right. The whole organic approach, like, um, Especially with podcasting, you'll find this, it opens so many doors. So the, the best example that I know of was when we were, when we had a beauty business, um, before I sold it, uh, we, we, we ran this podcast in 2012.

And I think it was 2012, 2012, 2013. I mean, I don't quote me, it's a long time ago, but we were doing this podcast and we thought if we grow the audience is going to really help our business, right? If I get 20, 000 people listening to the podcast, that's potentially 20, 000 new customers that I can pitch my products to.

What we quickly discovered was actually the podcast, there was this one brand, uh, where I discovered this, this beauty brand whereby Um, we were trying everything we can to get their brand to sell on our website. But [00:28:00] we could not get the account. It didn't matter who we spoke to, what we did, um, even if I called and tried to speak to the CEO, I couldn't get through.

They just wouldn't let me. Do you know what I mean? It was one of those where the secretary is very efficient, shall we say, um, and a very good gatekeeper. And so then I had the brainwave where I thought, I just wonder what would happen if, and so I called the company not to open up the account. I called to speak to the CEO, but to invite them onto the podcast.

Now this is back in the day where people didn't really know what podcasts were. And I said, listen, we've got this podcast, which is a bit like a radio show. We'd love for you to come on. And I just want to ask you some questions about the beauty industry, what you think about it, where it's going and all that sort of good stuff.

And he was like, man, I would love to, straight through to the CEO, he's loving it, the whole idea. We get him on the show. This was the first time I'd ever really done an interview, or one of the first times I'd ever really done an interview on anything like this. So we spoke for [00:29:00] over an hour and a half, which is probably a little bit excessive, even by my standards.

Um, but it was a very good conversation. And what happened at the end of that was, he, he said to me, Matt, I've really enjoyed this conversation. It's been great getting to know you. And I said, well, that's awesome, man. We've been trying to get through to you, but you've got, you know, great personal, Jeremy just making a bit of a joke about the lady that would never let me talk to him.

He's like, why are we trying to get through? I'm like, well, I'd love to have, you know, an account from you, put it on the, on the site. And it's like, it's no problem. I really like you. I'll make sure it all gets set up. Well, that year, that one podcast, you know, brought in. Over, I don't know what the exact number was, but it was over a hundred grand in sales, right?

Um, and I thought, well, isn't this interesting, uh, as a way to get through to people, to open doors to people you really want to talk to. If you call them up and say, I'd like to sell you my services, they're not interested. If you call them up and say, I'd love for you to be a [00:30:00] guest on my podcast. Well, that's a very different story.

And then you can network and build relationship. And I, I, I'm excited for your podcast because I think it can really help you.

Niki Lindgren: Yeah. Good to hear. Good to hear.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. That works super well. So you've got it all going on, right? You've got staff. You've, you've got the challenges of, of life being faced in, in so many ways.

How do you stay on, on top of you? How do you recharge your batteries? How do you find the energy to keep going? Oh, is it just that?

Niki Lindgren: No, it's definitely not there. I'm kind of a low, a low energy person. So what I have to do to kind of stay top mental game is just get outdoors, really kind of run or bike ride is what I get into the most.

Um, but we're busy. Like we have, um, we have three kids at, at my house. So, you know, the, the time between all the things of running the business, maintaining the house is is sometimes limited. So that's usually what I want to do is get out for a run or get out for a bike [00:31:00] ride, um, but not every day grants me time to do that.

Matt Edmundson: And when you talk about bike, is it just, is it an electric bike, a normal bike, or have you got one of those fancy carbon road bikes that goes psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Niki Lindgren: I've got a road bike. It's not that fancy.

It's probably like 15 years old at this point. And I hear bike shops are very over, uh, inventory. So now might be the perfect time to get a better bike.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Cause I mean, going back to COVID, you couldn't buy a bike full of the money. And so now they've got way more stuff than they need because people, it's like, well, I don't need one anymore.

Um, and so everyone's got the bike sales going on, haven't they? But, um, yeah, we, I did the road bike thing a little bit, But Liverpool where I live, the roads aren't great, I'm not going to lie, you know, there's, there's a significant amount of potholes to make you think, hmm, I'm not quite sure I'm enjoying this.

And so I, I gave away my road bike. But the bike I have now, which [00:32:00] is more like a commuter bike, it's like a hybrid bike. I'm, you know, the office is seven miles away, that's, I just jump on the bike and go, that's fine, but I don't do the sort of two and a half, three hour rides anymore, which I kind of miss, so I get why you would, why you would do that.

Um, is there some really nice countryside where you are, or is it all city? We

Niki Lindgren: have a lot of nature areas. I'm in the San Francisco Bay area on the peninsula and you can go to the ocean side, to the bay side, there's reservoirs in between, so there's a lot you can do away from an actual road but still be on a road bike.

Matt Edmundson: There's a lot of hills in San Francisco though.

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely not flat, um, but I, when I run, I avoid the hills. I'll take the wildest path to get my mileage in just to make sure, um, the hills are minimal.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, very good, very good. And the kids, if you don't mind me asking, are they, are they young kids, they sort of teenagers or are they fly in the nest kind of kids?

Niki Lindgren: Middle school, we've got, uh, [00:33:00] 10, 8, and 6.

Matt Edmundson: Wow. So you're, you're a mum to three kids and you're running your own business.

Niki Lindgren: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so do you actually find time for yourself in all of that?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah. You know, um, really when business is moving along as expected, I'm working 35, 40 hours a week. So I'm pretty, dedicated to making sure I'm available.

But you know, there's always moments of crunch, holiday seasons, etc, where we're working longer hours or behind on a deliverable. So not all weeks are created equal, but most weeks are really average in terms of how much I'm working.

Matt Edmundson: And do you do you then do the big rock thing, which is These are the big rocks that I definitely want to make sure in my diary every week, you know, I want to be able to do x, y, and z.

So therefore the business needs to sort of bow to that and you've managed to build a, not a lifestyle business, but you've managed to build a business that gives you some [00:34:00] flexibility around your three kids that maybe you wouldn't have if you're in corporate.

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, exactly, and I think that's like the thing my husband likes to remind me of is the flexibility that I have here and the fact that I actually struggle with bosses so often, so it's like, this is perfect for you.

Um, so it's nice to have those reminders, especially on the hard days where he's like, well, aren't you going to be off work all day tomorrow to go to the library with a bunch of first graders? And I'm like, yeah, that's right. That is how I'm using some of my work day. So, um, so yeah, it comes with a lot of flexibility.

I think just sometimes when you're so in the thick of it and things are going to be so frustrating or daunting, it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Matt Edmundson: So what does growth look like for you then in the midst of that being a busy mom?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, well, I think what we're definitely learning is business as usual or complacency is going to be a killer for us.

So we're looking for ways to really ebb and flow with the needs of our clients and with, you know, So much of what we offer shifting into creative [00:35:00] focus and other parts of, you know, full, full business views, et cetera. We're looking to augment our stack of services to really cater to our ICP because that isn't changing.

We're very locked into the industries we want to serve. It's just are there needs evolving and how can we match that to stay relevant? It is. Really what I think will lead us to growth. Um, but we're still in early stages of nailing all that down.

Matt Edmundson: So if there was, um, uh, again, I'm just stealing from different books now that if there was one thing that you could do today that would have the biggest impact on your business You know, in 12 months time, what would that be?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, I think the biggest thing that we could do today if we could get our clients to find, you know, prove that it's valuable and they'll pay for us for it is because we're working with ICPs of 1 to 10 million dollar businesses when they, when they come to us doing something in the forecasting lane for them because they usually don't have a data analyst in house and they're lacking those [00:36:00] skills.

So using our analytics prowess to kind of help them. Look at the future with some real quantitative modeling is probably the best thing we could offer, um, in my mind, but we're also straddling the idea of creative, of, you know, landing page. Um, so those are kind of like the three focus areas that we're trying to figure out who on the team and with the team stack we have today, which of the three will be best to

Matt Edmundson: solve.

Fantastic, fantastic. Well, Nicky, I, I, I look forward to having a conversation, maybe in a year's time, to see how it all, how it's all gone, uh, and where it's all going. But now we have reached the stage of the conversation where I'm going to pick up the question box. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Uh, this is the bit that most people become the most nervous about, which I, and I actually quite, this is the most enjoyable part of the show for me.

Uh, so I am going to flick through the deck of questions, wherever the question stops. That's the question I'm going to ask you. So if you're listening to the show and you hear a kind of a weird sound, that's [00:37:00] just me flicking through the deck. So here we go.

Niki Lindgren: And I just tell you when to stop.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Okay. Here we go, Nikki. Oh, that's a very apt question, perhaps. If you had to live somewhere else, where would you live?

Niki Lindgren: Oh my gosh. Um, if I had to, um, if I had to live somewhere else, Um, hmm, if I had to live somewhere else, I would probably go, maybe I've told you about this, we, we travel to this small little island in the Caribbean, um, during winter break, and I would maybe go live on an island with my family in the Caribbean called Bonaire.

It's um, a Dutch Antilles island, and there's really great windsurfing there, which is a www. [00:38:00] aurionmedia. com Being with a vibe could be really good for my, for my state of needs right now.

Matt Edmundson: So in essence, this is a great question, isn't it? If you had to live somewhere else, where would you live? In essence, what I'm hearing you say is the girl from the small town wants to return to a small island.

Niki Lindgren: Yes, it's a little bit more of a trapped environment than a small town in the middle of a big country. Um, so maybe I, I just, you know, I'll, I'll discover some things and have my, um, gut reactions move a little faster if, if I'm stuck somewhere for a while.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. I love that.

I've never actually been to that part of the Caribbean. Maybe I should check it out. There's, I don't know how I would answer that question. If you would have had to live somewhere else, where would you live? Because I, I really love where I live. I can't imagine myself. I don't know if you're the same way in the [00:39:00] sort of the, the, the Bay Area, but I, I can't imagine myself.

Now that said, if I'm totally honest, I have been looking at, um, Other properties to buy is like a secondary house, right? Like a holiday, um, uh, home. And I've been looking, I mean, living in England, you have this beautiful thing called Europe set right on your doorstep, you know? And so I've, I've been looking at properties in Italy, in Greece, in Portugal, um, and, uh, you just sort of get carried away with it.

I think it's a little bit romantic if I'm honest with you. Plus, I don't know if I'd ever do it because of all the tax and blah, blah. It just becomes complicated. But I would genuinely love to have a home, my own place, somewhere that I could get to within like an hour or two of Liverpool. So if I just go to the airport here in Liverpool, jump on a plane, fly somewhere, and I'm [00:40:00] there, that's by a beach, and I can just have open ocean views.

I really love Jersey, which is a small island off the north coast of France, not New Jersey, just want to point that out. So going to the small island thing, Nikki, that you had. Yeah. I think if I could have something in Jersey, we've got some really good friends in Jersey, we go every year, um, and something that was, that overlooked, maybe a place called Plymouth Bay or, um, Grave du Lac, somewhere around there, um, a good friend of mine, in fact, he was my business partner in the beauty business that we had, he has this property which overlooks the sea and the beach in Jersey, which I, I'm just in utter envy of because it's the most stunning place.

Uh, in the, in the sort of part of world. And I just think I'd do that. Um, right. I'll do that because I can,

Niki Lindgren: I mean, if you wanna, if you had to,

Matt Edmundson: if I had to take one for the team, , right. I did think about places, you know, like we could move to new, we've got some friends in [00:41:00] New Zealand. I really love New Zealand.

New Zealand's like the best bits of. America and England and Australia sort of put into one country, I think. The Kiwis would hate me saying that, of course, they have their own identity, but I think it's a beautiful country. But I would go stir crazy being that far away from the UK and you're on an island.

I appreciate it's a very big island, but there's still only 4 million people. So yeah, I would go. So I'd need to escape, you know, which is where Jersey is great because it's an hour from Liverpool on the plane. So.

Anyway,

Matt Edmundson: well I'm starting to dream again about property now. Uh, Nicky, um, if people want to reach you, if they want to find out more about you, maybe, uh, tell us a little bit about your agency actually and what you do.

I mentioned it at the start, but, um, just give, what's your elevator pitch?

Niki Lindgren: Yeah, so we, uh, run growth marketing for eCommerce brands that are in earlier stage. So we're helping brands run all their paid media, channel agnostic, so we're talking about TikTok, Programite, like Google, Meta, [00:42:00] all of the goods. And we're also doing SEO for them so that we can help them grow both paid and on the organic side, um, to get new customers.

And people can find us at Pennock. That's P E N N O C K dot C O. We offer free audits and for select customers, we're actually paying some of their, uh, media spend for the first quarter of the relationship.

Matt Edmundson: Wow. That sounds very exciting. Uh, so we will of course link to Nikki in the show notes. Are you on, do you do the whole LinkedIn thing?

Niki Lindgren: We do. I've been quiet because it's been August and July, so the summer has been a little quiet, but yes, we are, I'm typically on LinkedIn. Pretty regularly.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Very good. Of course, all of those links will be in the show notes. Nikki, thank you for coming on to yet another of our podcasts and suffering my, uh, questions for, for another hour.

It's, but it's been lovely. It's been really interesting hearing your story.

Niki Lindgren: Yes, I really appreciate it, Matt.

Matt Edmundson: Well, [00:43:00] fantastic. What a great conversation that was. A massive, in fact, let me do this, hang on. Yay, there we go. Massive round of applause to Nikki for joining us today. And, uh, like I say, enjoy my questions for yet another hour.

Huge thanks also to today's sponsor, PodJunction. For all you change makers out there contemplating, uh, podcasting as your new vehicle of marketing, then check them out at podjunction. com. You're not going to want to miss that opportunity. Sadaf, go talk to Sadaf, she's an absolute legend. Now remember, keep pushing to be more.

Don't forget to follow the show wherever you get your podcasts from because we've got some more seriously great conversations coming up and I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, and how dare they, let me be the first. You are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome.

It's just a burden you have to bear. Mickey's got to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. The show is produced, like I [00:44:00] say by Pod Junction. For transcript show notes, head over to the website, push to be more.com and a big kudos to the pod junction team for making this show possible.

Now, that's it from me. That's it from Nikki. Thank you so much for joining us. Have an awesome week. Wherever you are in the world, I'll cchi. I'll catch you on the flip side. Until then, keep pushing. Bye for now.