The Story of a Disruptive Non-Medical Healthcare Entrepreneur | Jack Latus

Jack: you get in every industry people saying it has to be done in this way and it's the worst reason ever. Cuz they say, cuz it's always been done. As soon as someone says that to me, I'm like, okay, that's a good reason for us to do something different.

Matt: Well, welcome to Push to Be More with me your host, Matt Edmundson. Now, this is a show that talks about the stuff that makes life work and to help me do just that. Today I'm chatting with my very special guest, Jack Latus from Latus Health, about where he's had to push through what he does to recharge his batteries and to be as well as, What he plans on doing to be more.

Now the show notes and the transcript for my conversation will be available on our website, pushtobemore.com, and on our website you can also sign up for our newsletter and each week we will email you these links with the notes and the links from the show automagically they come direct to your inbox, it's totally free.

It's totally amazing. So make sure you sign up for that. Now this episode is brought to you by Aurion Media, which helps entrepreneurs and business leaders set up and run their own podcast. Why would they do that? Well, you know what I have found running my own podcast to be really, really rewarding, especially from a business point of view, it opens doors to amazing people like nothing else I have seen.

I have built networks, made friends, had a platform to champion my customers, my team, and my suppliers, and I think just about any entrepreneur or business leader should have their own podcast because it's had such a positive impact on my own business. Now, of course that all sounds great in theory, but in reality, there's the whole problem of setup, distribution, getting the tech right, knowing what the right podcast strategy is.

I mean, the list goes on. You see, I love talking to people, but not all that other stuff. So the fab team at Aurion Media take it all off my plate. I just get to talk to people and they do the rest, which is brilliant. So if you're wondering whether podcasting is a good marketing strategy for your business, do connect with them at aurionmedia.com.

That's A U R I O N media dot com. We will of course, link to them on the podcast website as well which is pushtobemore.com. Oh, yes it is. So hopefully you've got all of that. So that's the show sponsor. Let's talk about today's guest, Mr. Jack Latus, a disruptor and innovator in the healthcare industry who has overcome significant challenges through bootstrapping and disrupting the heavily regulated healthcare industry.

As CEO of Latus Health, he is changing the way the world heals consolidating the market and providing high level health testing for executives. Jack is committed to living well and has a data-driven approach to his health, including a six month longevity protocol that reduced his biological age by 4.6 years.

I'm very intrigued and interested, so yes, we are gonna get into that conversation. Jack, welcome to the podcast, man. Great to have you. How you doing?

Jack: I'm very good. Thanks, Matt. Thank you very much for having me on today.

Matt: No problem. No problem. And you are, uh, you're dialing in from Hull, right?

Jack: right. Yep. Yep.

Matt: before we hit the, before, the reason I'm laughing, ladies, gentlemen, is before we hit the record button, Jack just said I must remind myself not to get too Hull in the conversation, which I thought was such a fantastic phrase. Uh, so yeah.

Welcome, welcome, Jack. Great to have you. Uh, now tell us a little bit about Latus Health. Uh, just so we all know, I mean, I've read a little bit in the bio, but to maybe fill in a few of the blanks.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, sure. So Latus Health is a, an occupational health provider. Delivering B2B healthcare services across the UK and into, uh, Ireand and Northern Ireland as well. Um, so we basically are responsible for making sure that workplaces across the UK are healthy. Um, we're looking after the health needs of all their employees, um, both from a statutory point of view and from a.

Um, a wellbeing and wellness, health promotion point of view. Um, and we very much focus on being a, a tech enabled healthcare provider. So everything we do is how can we use, uh, digital solutions to improve the efficiency of the, uh, service and the healthcare outcomes for individuals as well.

Matt: So the um, I, I mean, that sounds great and I'm, I'm just curious if I just rewind a little bit, how in the world did you get into that, right? Because it's not like, it doesn't sound like one of those conversations, you know, where you sat in the pub with your mates and you go, what'd you wanna do, Jack? And you go, well, I'll tell you what I wanna do.

This is, I've got a vision for healthcare here and this is kind of what I do. It sounds like there's probably a bit of a story there.

Jack: Yeah, there is. It is, yeah. Absolutely. I don't think many people, uh, grow dreaming to be, uh, the chief executive in occupational health business. Right. So I think, um, so I, I mean, we got here very organically. I mean, so my, my background straight outta school was professional sports. I played professional rugby for six years. And then in, oh, 2010, I had a bad knee injury. I thought, that's it. Career over. Um, I was in a contract year at my club at the time, so I thought, right, I need a, a plan for after rugby. The only thing I knew outside of rugby was, was fitness, health and fitness. So I said, right. Obvious thing. Let's set up a gym.

Did that, uh, actually managed to keep playing rugby be for a few more years? I, I, I, uh, grew a gym. We trained a lot of, um, professional athletes out there. We got a. A really good reputation for, um, helping professional athletes compete at the top levels at the Olympics, at, you know, top level boxers, um, you know, premiership and, you know, high level footballers, uh, golfers, rugby players, you name it.

We're trained them. So we've got this, this reputation for being the go-to guys, definitely the North England for, um, For, for training professional athletes. But, uh, in 2014, um, cause I, I, I founded the business with, with my younger brother Sam. In 2014, our elder brother, he left the Royal Marines where he was a captain.

He came and joined us. And so we're in a position where I was like, hang on lads, we're doing a good job as a small independent gym here, but it's probably not gonna feed three families. What can we do to expand our, you know, our, our market opportunity? So we said, well, this. Um, program for improving athletic performance really is just a program for improving human performance.

Let's take this to the local corporates and sell it in as a, a wellbeing offering to improve productivity, improve performance, and it's gonna be, you know, make all these people so much better as businesses and they're gonna love it. Anyway they didn't, so, you know. It's uh, actually, um, although they all loved the concept of it, no one at the time had wellbeing anywhere near the top of their HR agenda.

They certainly didn't have a wellbeing budget. And so we effectively were going in there selling this. It's nice to have product, and they were like, yeah, it would be lovely to be able to provide us to all of our staff. But at the time there was no. There was no pressure from, you know, um, talent wars or recruitment pressures to actually need this to make it a must have.

Like it, it certainly is now, you know, wellbeing is a really, it is a must have within organizations now, but, This was back when it wasn't. So I was like, we were literally banging our heads against the wall saying, how are we gonna sell this back to the drawing board? And we said, right, what's that statutory requirement that still fits in with health that businesses have to buy?

And that's when we realized occupational health was that. So we went out, learned what occupational health was, built a clinical team, but then what we did, which was um, Smart. Uh, probably was, uh, well retrospectively looking back, it was smart. We put it alongside our wellbeing offering. So we went in with the statutory requirement work, this is what you have to do.

But then we also paired it with our wellbeing and wellness offering. So actually what we'd created is probably the most proactive occupational health company, certainly in the uk. And that allowed us to, to grow to where we are now because it was. It was a fairly competitive market with some real solid incumbents in there, um, that we were, you know, trying to, um, displace.

And I think it was, it was the sort of the wellness, wellbeing offering before everybody else was thinking about it. That gave us the opportunity.

Matt: Wow. So that's quite a journey. I mean,

Jack: Hmm.

Matt: from, the, the gym to the, the occupational health company. For those listening, maybe outside of the uk, just define, uh, occupational health. Just to be clear on what you mean by that term.

Jack: Yeah, so it's basically any of the, um, health needs which, uh, an a employer has. So effectively occupational health, and I'm sure we'll probably get some comments saying this is a bad definition of it, but it's, it's, it's, it's an, um, providing the advice and the health testing required to a organization to ensure that their employees are remaining safe in that, that working environment.

So there's two sides to it. There's how do we keep people at work safely or bring them back to work safely after illness or injury. So that would be, um, advice on returning to work. The other side of it is the statutory health testing, um, for people who work in environments which are potentially harmful to health, such as audiometry, if you're working in a noisy environment.

Spirometry for, if you're exposed to lung sensitizers, you're working with vibrating equipment with potentially sens uh, skin sensitizers. If you work in a job role, which could be, they always deem safety critical i.e. Uh, you drive a forklift or you work in a confined space, then there's certain medicals that by law you, your employer has to provide for you.

Matt: Okay, so in some respects, and maybe I'm mis misunderstanding it slightly, Jack, so correct me where I'm wrong here. The, the idea of owning a gym for me is quite a sexy idea. I've, I've sort of looked after gyms in the past. I've been involved, I've thought a few years ago about opening one here in Liverpool, the thought of occupational health?

I dunno, just doesn't feel as sexy somehow to me as, as running a gym. Have I? Is that, is that something maybe you've struggled with or would that just be me?

Jack: I, I think it's, it's a really good, um, viewpoint and, and I think. Occupational health historically, or the way that everybody else does it is not sexy. And if, if I was having to deliver it the same way that all the other providers in the UK do, then I, I'd be the same as you. I'd be like, this is, this is boring.

It's not, you know, it's not, not exciting enough for me, but because we're very much disruptive in it and we're coming at it from a "how do we improve the occupational health experience", not just for the employer and the employee. Um, how do we improve healthcare outcomes? Cuz one thing occupational health traditionally has never done and still doesn't, except for us.

is It doesn't make the employee healthy, it doesn't improve health. All it does is provide advice and make sure people. Aren't getting unhealthy, whereas we come at it and we say, how can we make our service actually help people get healthier as well? So that's, you know, totally unique in terms of, uh, I mean, I think a lot of people think running a gym is exciting, but it's really hard work.

And I think, um, the, you know, even now to people who are personal trainers, for example. I think a lot of people go into personal training thing. It's great I get to work at a gym and train people all day. Like that is long, hard hours. It's unsocial hours. You are doing the six o'clock till 10 o'clock shift in the morning, got next to nothing on during the day, et cetera.

Probably winning an Instagram channel these days, most people do. And then working again from what. Four in the afternoon again till 8, 9, 10 o'clock at night like it is. That is hard work and the burnout rate in that industry is significant. Obviously covid reduced the amount of PTs in the market by about 50% and obviously we lost a load of gyms as well.

So, um, I guess the short answer is I find what we do very exciting because. For, for me, if you, if you're excited about, uh, business and being in, in the, the game of business. And that's what gets me turned on and keeps me excited about what we're trying to do. We've got a massive mission of what we're trying to do, which is change the way the world heals.

And the occupational health is a small section of that within a 30 year plan. So, um, the actually for, for me, it's, winning at the game of business, which is exciting. Occupational health services just happens to be the product that we sell.

Matt: So when you say winning at the game of business, what do you mean? Cuz I, I I can, I, I'm sitting here going, I'm smiling cuz I'm like, that sounds awesome. Uh, I'm just, let's dig into that a little bit. What do you mean by that?

Jack: Yeah, well, like I see business as a game, not in that it's a, uh, um, am belittling or bringing it down, you know, it's people's livelihoods at stake and all that. And I take that with. All the most importance it deserves and the fact that we're looking after people's health. And, you know, the statutory requirements of big organizations is very serious.

But if you break down business into its fundamentals effectively, it's a game of who can, um, generate the most, uh, profit and return to shareholders. And who can do that sustainably over the longest period of time. So that's no different to, to, I suppose, sport, really sport's about who can win the most matches and who can do that for the longest period of time over, you know, winning, you know, league year after year.

Um, so that's, that, that's, and, and again, it's, it's how can you do that most efficiently with the, the fewest resources, you know, the, you know, the revenue or profit per full-time equivalent and all that sort of thing. That's where I find it it very exciting and, and that's why I define it as a game.

Matt: Yeah, but you find it enjoyable. You find it and and it's the, so is the idea of. Um, going back to the gym days is the idea of owning the gym and trying to run that as a business. More exciting appe an appealing to you than actually just the gym. It could be any business as long as you are passionate about what you're doing.

Jack: Yeah, a absolutely, and it is funny, I, um, a lot of people would say to me, oh, your typical. Not massive word fan of the word, but you know, a typical entrepreneur, oh, you must have always been into this. And the answer was, I wasn't, you know, um, in fact, a, a story I often tell is at school we used to have this thing called Young enterprise.

And effectively that's where with your colleagues, when you're about 16, you, you set up a, a small business and you, you run it as a, a trading organization. You compete on a national level against other businesses of your size. And we set up a business which was called, um, tops Off, and it was doing a credit card custom, uh, customized bottle openers, hence the name tops off.

Anyway, my job within this business was the mascot. I used to wear the bottle costume. I. So I had no, I I, they wouldn't even let me near like the, the marketing strategy or the sales or even ideas. All they let me do was turn up to the trade shows and wear the bottle costume. So the, the reason I tell that story is cause it's, it's an extreme example of when I was young, I was not interested in business at all.

I wasn't your typical, you know, you hear stories of you Richard Branson selling sweets and jeans and whatever in the playground. That wasn't me at all. And then I went into rugby cause that's all I was, all I was interested in. For me, age 15, I said I'm gonna be a professional rugby player. Um, and so that's all I focused on.

Then when I came into the gym, I didn't set the gym up for a business. I set it up for, it was a passion of mines. The only other thing I knew and at the time my passion was to be the best trainer I could possibly be. And it wasn't until the business started to the business side of, um, the gym came through. I was like, oh, I like this and.

Matt: Mm.

Jack: And I, I guess really what it it sums up to is whatever I've done, I've always tried to do to the very best of my ability and be ultra-competitive at it. And then that leads when you're very competitive at something that leads you into this, this journey of self-discovery and self-improvement.

And it's that self-improvement that says, oh, how good can I get at this? And I'll be honest, I've got prove, uh, points to prove as well. I didn't, I wasn't successful at the b I didn't have the career I wanted to do. Um, so I'm, so for me, my aim is to become, Um, a great within business and for me to be a great within business, you need to hit that a billion pound or billion dollar to make it slight easier, uh, valuation.

So that's what we're doing. We're on a journey to become a, you know, a billion dollar company.

Matt: It's interesting, you, you, you may not think of yourself as an entrepreneur from, from a young age, but it sounds like you've been competitive from a young age. Uh, and, and you know, you're referring to rugby as a teenager, referring to business as a game and this drive to win and, and, um, and, and sort of do that competitive streak.

Can I ask, are you still doing the gym? Is that still running or did that, that go by the wayside?

Jack: It's no, the, the, the gym still operates. Um, and it very much is a small local offering for some of our, our bigger, um, corporate customers around here. So effectively they get it built in as part of their corporate package. So it's only for our, our local customers that they get access to that. Um, but we don't, we don't run it as a, uh, a significant, uh, service line.

Matt: So there's obviously been this, uh, career shifting. You're saying you were doing this with your three brothers, is that right? Did I understand that right?

Jack: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So we're, we're still a family owned business, still wholly owned by three brothers, myself, Will Latus and Sam Latus.

Matt: So, and I can imagine, uh, the competitiveness amongst the brothers. It must be quite, quite interesting. Um, so what sort of challenges have you faced then, um, bootstrapping your company, transitioning from the gym to occupational health? There's some big players in occupational health. It is gonna be.

I dunno a lot about it. I'm gonna assume a super regulated industry. So how, I mean, how have you dealt with that?

Jack: I think the biggest challenge is definitely being from a nonmedical background, is um, being able to convince people that your vision for the way something should be delivered is correct and we're constantly coming up against the, what I call like the dinosaurs of, of the industry of occupational health who set it up in the, still around, who set it up in the 1970s saying, no, it has to be done in this way.

And it's like, show me the evidence of why it has to be done in that way and I'll sit down and I'll listen to you, but it's not you. You know, we, you get in every industry people saying it has to be done in this way and it's the worst reason ever. Cuz they say, cuz it's always been done. As soon as someone says that to me, I'm like, okay, that's a good reason for us to do something different. Um, so I'd say that is probably the biggest challenge is around, um, creating the change we want to see, but without, um, the medical background for the credibility point of view.

Um, luckily we have fantastic team around us. We've got great chief medical officer, clinical directors and, um, advisory board who are unique in their own right because they're, you know, medical people, they're expert physicians, you know, practicing physicians and they've got this, this eye on the future. And where, uh, digital healthcare fits, where AI fits into, um, into healthcare as well. So without those guys, it'd be very hard, but I'm very fortunate to have them.

Matt: So is that, was that your strategy to overcome? Maybe the, you see, I, I'm listening to you talk, Jack and I, I, I'm going, well, here's a guy who's resilient. Here's a guy who's got grit, um, and determination. Quite a competitive guy. Wants to do well, you know, wants to, sounds like you'll probably wanna do something of a high quality, which is great, but you're in an industry where it is regulated, where you don't have that medical background.

So what was your strategy for, for, for win? Or what is your strategy for winning in that industry? Cause obviously you can't rely necessarily on your own. Um, insider knowledge here. You, it sounds like you're recruiting team. What else are you doing?

Jack: Yeah, I, I think definitely is recruit, recruiting the key players. It's also, um, about seeing what's going on in other industries. So I'm a big believer, like if you, if you wanna disrupt the car industry, don't go out and find the person who's been, you know, produced the best cars for the last. 10, 15, 20 years, you want to go and find someone from a different industry and say, how would you disrupt this one?

So I guess that's kind of what we've done. We've, we've brought, you know, the tech guys in from, who haven't necessarily worked in healthcare before and said, what, what have you been doing elsewhere and how can that be applied to us? So one of our biggest challenges is around the, our, one of our big goals is to, um, be able to deliver all of our services remotely.

So we've been going out and finding the best tech experts who understand how to build the hardware and then integrate with the software to actually enable us to do that. Um, so that's been around remote health testing for, well, the, the, the core things for us is audiometry, spirometry, um, vision testing.

Those are sort of probably the, the, the key things that we've had to, um, be able to do.

Matt: And it seems to be that healthcare, I mean, as a, as an industry, I mean, since Covid has rapidly moved to the online, Idea. I remember working with a, a healthcare, um, service in New Zealand and I, I was always struck by when you went to see your GP here in the UK, you had to, you had to go to the GP and you had to sit in a waiting room with really sick people coughing and spluttering everywhere, and you, you just wanted to talk about something over.

You probably could have done it on the phone. And it seems since covid, that whole concept has sort of, kind of accelerated forward, hasn't it? Have you, is that what you found with. Is, I suppose, in one sense, has Covid been a blessing for you guys? Is it accelerating what you're trying to do?

Jack: I, I think Covid, um, if you take the, the negative effect on the, you know, the, the crisis element of Covid out of it in terms of developing technology, it has definitely been a blessing for. Um, for healthcare and definitely for us as well. So, um, pre covid we were saying to a lot of our customers, right, for. A good 50, 60, 70% of our services. We currently do not need to come to your site to deliver these, or you don't have to come to us. These can be delivered remotely already with a technology that already exists. And they were, again, it goes back to, oh, we've always received our services this way. So they were reluctant to do that.

Covid gave people no choice. I said it gave people forced exposure to a new technology. The healthcare outcomes off the back of that were better. So even from our point of view, Businesses were getting, uh, appointments faster. They were getting the reports faster i.e. they were getting the advice on what they need to do with their employees faster.

So and so it forced them into it and they're like, hang on, this is better for us as well. So now they haven't gone back. Um, I am concerned that in a lot, in some fields of healthcare, you see people very quickly going back to the old way instead of saying, hang on, we've been taught a really good lesson hereby.

The, um, what we've been forced to do by Covid. Um, but people quickly want to go back to the old way. Um, so for us it was definitely a blessing. It's definitely created that sort of forced exposure and it has moved the industry forward and it's helping us to get closer to where we want to be with the, um, customer.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah, it's fair. It's, it's interesting, isn't it? I, the, the sort of double-edged sword of covid, uh, like you're saying in a lot of ways. I mean, there's a lot of bad that came outta Covid, but there seems to have been a lot of good, especially if you're in the tech or digital industries, or you can incorporate tech or digital in, in the industry that you are in.

So let, here you are, um, Uh, sort of fairly young guy in this whole healthcare industry, taking on the dinosaurs from the 1970s. Um, so apart from the fact that you get wound up when people tell you you can't do it or it, it, it's always been done that way. So you, you, you, how, how else have you dealt with that from a sort of a personal point of view?

I mean, what are some of the things that you've done to deal with the naysayers, uh, from the industry?

Jack: Um, I think for me it does just constantly go back to that, um, resilience and persistence and saying if, if you believe that your vision for the way something should be delivered is the right way. And um, and you've got data to back that up. And you can see the, the, you know, the end goal and you're prepared to play the long, long game. Then, and you can just, you can sort of internalize that belief.

Then you just got to continue going. So it's not really against fighting against these. You know, the, the people who's saying you can do something. Yes. You use that as motivation. It's fueling the fire. I, I've always loved to prove someone wrong. Um, but I don't, you know, for example, I don't start to, you know, get engaged in conversations with these people and, and arguments because for me, I'd rather let them all argue about how he shouldn't and shouldn't do, should or shouldn't do something.

And me and my team will just keep focused on, on where we're going and, and our mission. Um, so I definitely think that I, I think. Again, look at what other industries are doing and certain industries, healthcare being one of them, will, will sit behind, but eventually it has to catch up. So it's like, and again, it comes down to, and then you might think of sort of Simon Sinek's infinite game mindset or for, for me, it's just playing that long game and saying, we're prepared to outlast the competition.

We'll be here when our competition aren't, and therefore our way will at some point has to be the norm. So, um, it, a lot of it comes down to self-belief. Uh, the other side of it is not being, um, over leveraged in terms of, uh, debt and, uh, you know, having to provide returns to, to investors. Like we're very fortunate as business, we're very profitable, um, but we're not under pressure to give those returns in the next 6, 12, 18 months to investors. So we can play that long game.

Matt: Yeah. One of the benefits of Bootstrapping slightly grower, and, uh, slower in the start, but actually in the long run, it, it can pay off. Right.

Jack: And very much so. You know, we stayed as a small provider for years and you know, we've been in the game for, well, if you take since we start, we started doing occupational health in 2017. Um, so it's not that long. I suppose what we're now that's, we're sort of five, six years into it. Um, But it took us a while to get our foothold, to get that growth.

And now we're the 5th biggest provider in the UK. Um, you know, and the people who are above us have been doing it for 20 years plus. So, you know, within the next three years we'll be the market leader in our industry.

Matt: I have no doubt. It'd be interesting actually, to have you back on when you achieve that spot, and we'll talk about that. Um, but Jack, listen, I, I'm kind of curious. You, you use phrases like self-belief, resilience, persistence, where, what cultivates that you or where did that come from? Is that something you've always had? Is that something you've had to learn? Where, where did that come from? What's the driver?

Jack: That is a tough question. Is it, is it internal or is it from external influence? Uh, I've certainly always been inspired by people who achieve great things and, and for me, when you see someone achieving great things, one of the common, um, traits of those people seems to be this belief. First of all, you can't achieve anything without believing.

Cuz to start with, you've got to be able to vision and say, right, that's what I'm aiming for. Right? So you've gotta have that and then you've gotta have that self-belief. So, you know, I do believe that the successful people. Share probably three common traits. They share the, the trait of elevated sense of self, so they believe in themselves.

Um, they're probably in a state of sort of constant self-doubt, which kind of keeps you motivated. That's a bit of a dichotomy really. It's like I've, you've got, you've got elevated sense of self, but then and, oh, I'm not good enough, so I have to try harder. And then the third one is, um, is like that ability to delay gratification, which, um, I think is absolutely key because.

One, if you are, you don't start celebrating too soon. So you keep driving. Uh, and the other side of it is you get massive compound effect. Your compound benefit of doing. So if you can, you know, even if you just look at it from a financial point of view, if you can delay the point at which you start to extract that reward from your business, then you're just gonna be reinvesting profits.

And that went, that's when you, you know, supercharge growth.

Matt: Yeah, no, three very good points. I, I like those. I've got them written down. Um, it's interesting, there is this real tension isn't there for a lot of people. Like I, I have strong belief in what I'm doing. I. With that tension of, I dunno if I'm good enough, I dunno if I'm in the right place, I dunno if this is me.

And this sort of constant going backwards and forwards, uh, which is quite, uh, is quite fascinating. So if, let's, I mean you, you talk about people of influence. Let me ask this question then, right. Let's assume you, I mean this show sponsored by Aurion Media, uh, which helps entrepreneurs, you know, set up and run their own podcast to grow their own businesses.

I'm kind of curious if you had your own podcast people of influence, people that have inspired you. If you could have anyone from the past or the, um, present on your show just to talk to them and, you know, pick their brains, I'm curious who would, who would be on your show and why?

Jack: Yeah, it's an interesting question and I think. Right, right now, people who are sort of really inspiring me at the moment, I've got, I'll probably reel a few off and give you a reason then actually the person I would really wanna do a podcast with probably wouldn't be on this list. Um, so I think right now I've got inspiration from probably one of the biggest inspiration I've got at the moment.

It's a chap called George Heaton. So he's not from my field at all. He's from the, um, from fashion industry. So he's the, the chief exec of, uh, represent clothing brand. Um, they're on a, you know, pretty significant growth journey themselves. I think they're coming towards a sort of a hundred million turnover.

His aim is to build the world's best brand. I love the, sort of the, the vision of, and he's also in business with his brother, um, Michael Heaton. Um, I like the way he goes about his business. He's very, uh, mission driven, uh, all about building community around his brand. But then as a, in his personal life, he's very much fitness orientated.

Um, so I'd, I'd enjoy that sort of conversation with him, um, over in the US I think someone like Grant Cardone would be interesting to, to, uh, to have on a, to, to interview. I think Grant Cardone is absolute marmite to most people. In fact, I actually, uh, suggested one of our, my directors, uh, listen to one of his, uh, books.

I can't remember what it was. It might be, uh, be Obsessed or Be Average or something like that. And she said, wow. He's like a, a wwe commentator. She said, I can't listen to this guy. And I was like, you're just missing. I said, you're missing. I said, listen to what he's saying. You're missing the message.

Cause sometimes I, I think with people, you gotta take them to an extreme and, and Grant Cardone and his extreme. But, um, so I thought he would be quite an interesting one. I love his, um, he uses a term omnipresence, like he's just everywhere and like, you can love him or hate him, but you're gonna know about him.

I quite like that. Um, I think Dana White and what he's done at UFC would be an amazing one. Uh, good. But the actual, the person who I thought if I was gonna do one podcast would be, um, and I wouldn't say he's, he's, um, his career, his early part of his career was particularly inspirational to me, even though he was absolute sporting sensation.

What he's done now and the brand he has is unbelievable. That's David Beckham. But the reason I think I would want to have him on my podcast is, um, Because no one else has. Have you, have you ever seen David Beckham on a podcast

Matt: No. The only time I've ever seen him in sort of a chat show format is if he's doing something with James Cordon.

Jack: Yeah, you're right. Yeah, absolutely. So I, um, and I actually think, I don't think David Beckham gets the credit he deserves and it, you know, so all the people might say it's it's external influence and he is being well managed or whatever, but the brand he has the fact that, you know, how many, how many sports stars.

Command a brand they do post a successful career the way he does now is unbelievable, you know? Um, and actually I, and I have a lot of, and it might just be, um, external perception, but I have a lot of admiration for the way he goes about his life in general. He seems like he's got great family connection now. Great friends Connection, does a lot of travel. Um, so just, yeah, he just looks like he's doing great things. Would love to interview him.

Matt: Well, that would be amazing. And if you do, uh, I, I will definitely tune in because I'd be really curious by that. In fact, I was thinking then the only time I'd ever heard him really speak was on Parkinson. I think he was on Parkinson once and Victoria his wife came on and let slip this is that she called him golden Balls, which I thought was hysterical.

Uh, but yeah, no, it's brilliant. So, um, Listen, uh, Jack, what you, let me, let me sort of switch gears a little bit. Um, you've been in the fitness industry, we said in the intro you reduced your biological age by 4.6 years. Dunno what that means. But what do you do to, um, stay well, to fill your tank, to recharge your batteries? What, I mean, knowing everything that, you know, working across all the industries. What's, what's stuff that you do?

Jack: Yep. Okay. So, um, It's a whole lot. So, um, I think def definitely everybody should be doing some form of, uh, trying to maintain muscle mass and maintain strength. So I spend a fair bit of time in the gym doing some form of resistance training. Um, I do CrossFit training as well, which I've got into in sort of the later part of my athletic career.

Um, and very much enjoy that. Um, keeping VO2 max high is also key in terms of, uh, increasing longevity and, and life expectancy. Um, strength or muscle mass and VO2 max are the two, uh, biggest indicators of how long you'll live. So I always try and maintain those. Um, so that involves some potentially fairly boring cardio work.

So like, um, just, you know, pure VO2 max work. But then the other side of that is I also have gotten back into playing tennis recently.

Matt: Okay.

Jack: So, so I played tennis seriously until about the age of 14, 15, sort of like at a national level. Um, and, and then actually once I started to really get into rugby, I, I, I sort of, I gave up on the tennis. Um, and actually if you look at where my resilience comes from, you asked me that earlier. A lot of it does come from the tennis days because,

Matt: Hmm.

Jack: Weirdly, and you, you only understand this if you've been inside tennis at a top level. It's a a horrible sport to be part of cuz it is. The pressure is unbelievable, especially as a young child.

And unfortunately I fell outta love with it and then it's one of my big life regrets because. If I'd have just kept playing it in some form to some, you know, just playing it for fun if you like, rather than having to play it seriously and just kept my hand in it. I'd have, I'd have actually been a, a pretty decent player when I got older, when I started to, to develop physically.

Uh, but anyway, uh, I finished when I was 14. I had my 34th birthday coming up back in September last year, and I thought, I really should be playing a sport. I was doing CrossFit, doing some gym work, but I had no sport and I thought, I need to get back into it because, you know, while, while you can, you should, was my thinking, uh, I thought, well, I can't get back into rugby.

That stupid. I used to play cricket. Cricket takes too long. I wouldn't be able to maintain a relationship with my partner if I had to go and play cricket for all day on a, on a Saturday. So I thought actually, Um, the only other sport I've ever played to any sort of level is tennis. I thought I could probably pick that up and it wouldn't lead to to injury.

So anyway, I booked myself last on my 34th birthday and I've, I've been back into it, so for pretty much six months since and really into it like classic me now, playing it quite seriously in a couple of teams and, you know,

Matt: No, no half measures. Right. That's,

Jack: no, exactly, and so that's what I do have to be careful of.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, um, I've done CrossFit for quite a few years now. I think I started back in 2015 and, um, uh, in 2015, what was that? That was eight years ago. So I was in my early forties when I started, um, doing CrossFit. So I was quite overweight. Uh, and my kids, um, Used to call me Baggy Belly and I started doing different workouts and I, I thought I was fairly fit.

And then I remember the first time I walked into the CrossFit gym here in Liverpool and did, it was just a simple workout. You had to do five rope climbs and I think it was like a 200 meter, what was it? Yes. Like 200 meter run, five rope climbs five times. How hard could that be? I was throwing up outside, uh, and I just got

Jack: you're pretty early into it then. 2015 is quite early. That's, that's well before the, the craze took off.

Matt: Well, in 2018, I, um, I said to my boys, uh, how old were they at the time? Maybe 16. Um, somewhere there, 16, 17, 18, somewhere around there. And, um, I said to them, listen boys, we get, let's do a trip. You just the three of us, right? Dad's and lads trip. Let's go somewhere. What do you wanna do? And my boys said, I, we really want to go the CrossFit games.

And so we went to watch the CrossFit games in Madison, which was fantastic actually. It was a phenomenal experience. And, um, We camped on the CrossFit ground. I mean, there's all kinds of stories that we could tell you, but yeah, so I get, I get what you mean with the CrossFit. Sorry, I don't get the VO2 max thing. I just don't care for insurance stuff.

Jack: Well, to be fair, I mean the, the simplest way most you can build VO2 max training in straightaway is something simple like, and you're probably not far off doing this already for taking part in, in CrossFit. I'll definitely be developing VO2 max, but you'd be doing something like four minutes. Hard out, as hard as you can effort for four minutes, four minutes off, do four blocks of that.

And actually to start with, that'd be pretty good. VO2 max training, you'd be, you would, you did that for, you know, a few months on the round you'd, you'd probably get a good increase.

Matt: Okay, but every day or just a couple times a week?

Jack: No, that's, I'd be looking to throw that in ideally three times a week. I think you'd get good, good benefit from two days a week.

Matt: Okay. We'll try it. I'll let you know. We'll see how we get on.

Jack: Yeah, you do that on an airbike or something, you get on an assault bike on that, you'll feel it.

Matt: well we, we've got, um, uh, sorry listeners, if you're not into fitness, but this, we'll just get a bit geeky.

Jack: This what happens when you put two geeky CrossFit people together, right?

Matt: You know, how do you know your mate does CrossFit? Cuz he is told you a thousand times.

Jack: Tell you,

Matt: Um, it's um, it's one of those, isn't it? But one of the things that we've done over the years is we've, I've built like a little gym in our garage. So we've got the steel garage at the back of the house. I dunno why I'm pointing to it.

Cause you can't, anyway, it's that way. Um, and so we've got this little gym which we've sort of kitted out over the years. So when Covid hit, um, we've got a gym. I've got my concept rower, I've got my rogue Echo bike, we've got all the weights going on in there. I've got a rogue rig, which I sort of commandeered from a gym that I was involved with that they didn't need that anymore.

So, I mean, we will properly kick kit, uh, kick out for a little home gym. So, Yeah, I, I thought, I, I remember when covid hit and everything went into lockdown. I was like, oh, thank God we did that because that, that just, that saved us in a lot of ways. My, my, uh, youngest son, my middle child, Zach, came out of Covid looking like properly.

Do you know what I mean? Properly ripped. Uh, and buff. And, um, yeah, that my, both my lads are ways stronger than me now. And so, which is great. It's great to see. So listen, Jack, let me ask you a question. Let's go to the question box cause I'm aware of time and, um, probably people listening in don't want us to keep talking about CrossFits. We'll move on.

Jack: Yeah, I feel like we've skipped, we've skipped over the, uh, all the secrets of how to reduce your age by five years and

Matt: Oh yeah. No, no. That's right. That's a good point. Let's come back to that before I hit the question box. You reduced your biological age by 4.6 years. What does that mean?

Jack: Yeah. So we've obviously, there's not obviously, but there are, um, different methods of. Um, assessing your biological age. And, um, so we have what's called, called biological aging clocks. And the, so the, the, the method we use mainly is around epigenetic age. Um, so effectively, um, it's a, it's, it's how your, um, it, it ba basically measures methylation within your, your genes.

And, uh, gives you a, a, a very. Accurate and reliable age against your chronic age? So if you were, my, my chronic age was, uh, sorry. Chronic chronological age was, um, 33 at the time. And I think I, and my, when I first did my assessment, my biological age was 38.5. So, um, uh, which was a bit of a wake up call for me.

Um, cause I thought I was fairly healthy, but then when I assessed it, I realized it was, um, a lot of high stress. Probably not making all, all the best decisions I could be making. So, um, that, that really made me sort of wake up and, and review what I did. So I put myself on a, um, a very, well, I wouldn't say the word very, I thought at the time, fairly intense.

And I'm seeing what this Brian Johnson guy is doing. If you're being following him, he is now getting quite a bit of attention over here and. I definitely didn't spend 2 million on mine. Um, although, um, I didn't get a result that was too dissimilar to his, I think he reduced his biological age by 5.2 years in seven months, and that's class as the, the world record.

Um, so, um, so my protocol was, was fairly simple. It was, um, a religious, intermittent fast, um, or what, what people will, will know the term intermittent fast, basically, where you consume all your calories in a, in a much shortened. Uh, window. So, so my, my, uh, Calorie restriction, um, Calorie consumption, um, was squeezed into a six hour window instead of most people's is, uh, sort of 14, 15 hours. Um, so intermittent fasting using, uh, cold therapy, uh, hot, hot therapy in the form of ice bath and, uh, in Fred Sauna. Um, Red light treatment. So that's where we're using both red light and uh, uh, infrared and near infrared exposure for cells. And basically that's looking to, um, improve the mitochondria. Uh, then, uh, supplement protocol of things such as, uh, quercetin, uh, resveratrol, uh, vitamin D3 and k2.

Um, I used NMN and metformin which are sort of like the, I think Nmn and Metformin are probably, uh, two bit more out there, I think. Um, no, it's just, suppose quercetin and resveratrol are pretty new. Not many people would be using those. But anyway, basically that, that whole stack there is the design purely to focus on, um, uh, your biological age, a, an epigenetic level.

Um, I, I think. Regardless of what the tests say, it's great to say actually, you know, biologically I'm now, five years younger than I was, which is great, but actually. The, key bit is the difference to the way you, feel and you perform. That's the bit which is, was key to me. Um, so I felt like I, I thought I actually felt good, but now the difference now compared to them is, uh, is massive and, and it's quite, it is actually sustainable.

So I, I now continue to, it's not like I just did it as a, a six month block. It's actually, it's just part of my life now. It probably takes me about 15 minutes in the morning to, for my, my supplement protocol in the morning, and then on the night after, I have a 30 minute red light exposure before bed. So I've got to build those into my, into my day.

But other than that, it's, uh, it's very maintainable. My, uh, my partner, she, she always goes, thinks it's a bit weird when she's falling to sleep next to a guy with a red light helmet on and some red light. Uh, Probes up my nose, but hey, it's helping my brain. It improves my sleep, sends me into a better, uh, deep wave sleep.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Does she just, does she, does she just look at you and go and then sort of go to sleep?

Jack: yeah, no, it's definitely, I mean, don't get me wrong, she goes to the gym and all that sort of thing, but yeah, she'd think, uh, the, uh, the, the level I go to is, um, a bit much.

Matt: It's interesting, isn't it? This whole topic of biohacking, I think has been a big thing for, for a few years. This, um, testing of your age, then, is that something that you guys do if people are interested and know more about that? How, how would I, how would I go test myself, for example?

Jack: Yeah, absolutely. So that's, that's something that we, we, we supply, um, through, through our, uh, clinic here. So we have a bricks and mortar clinic here where our, our office is where I'm sitting today. Um, and then we can deliver them online as well. I mean, all of the, uh, biological age tests have, uh, are validated for self collection as well.

So we can literally just dispatch those out to anywhere in the country and, um, with clear instructions of how to collect the sample, whether it be a saliva sample or a, a fingerprint blood sample. Uh, and then they just get sent back to our lab.

Matt: Fantastic. F well, I'm gonna go check it out. A good friend of mine actually came around the other day and told me he'd done one of these sort of age tests and his was, his was like, I think it was 10 years older than what he was. Um, and so he is like, I don't believe the results. I'm gonna have another one. But, um, funny enough, he does CrossFit as well. And,

Jack: Yeah, well, the, the public, he's probably chronically stressed or chronically overtrained, so that this is the strength training and fitness is very important for, you know, increasing longevity. But if you overdo it, you actually putting your, your, your cells into a state of, of overstress and actually you're not gonna, and that was probably something, something I was doing, you know, when my, my, my test results were a lot higher than I expected them to be.

Um, and I, I've been doing that for years, you know, since I was 15 when I decided I was gonna be a freshman rugby player, trained prob probably three days, sorry, three times a day for however long that was until I, till I finished when I was about 26 or 10, 11 years of, of chronically over training.

Matt: That's really interesting, isn't it? He, he thought it was to do with the fact he's got some, I think he had osteoarthritis and so, uh, he wondered whether that would, um, send his inflammation mark as sky high.

Jack: It, it would do, but there's, but it is cause on effect there for me. His, his osteoarthritis will be caused of some, he's caused by something he's doing. Um, and actually the, and the best thing he could do is look at a really good longevity protocol cause that would likely improve the symptoms of osteoarthritis.

Matt: Okay, so, and you guys do the test, but you also give, uh, advice on the protocols people should follow. I take it.

Jack: Absolutely. And if you, if think of our mission, mission to change the way the world heals affects everything we're saying is we need to start to focus on improving the, the people's health before they get ill. So at the moment, if we look at where we are now, we'll say Medicine 2.0, medicine 2.0 says, um, we'll fix you when you are broken.

So the, so medi medicine looks for dysfunction and it looks for illness, and it says, how do we make you better? So that's why we have amazing acute care, but we don't, we're, we're not good at chronic care. And the reason for that is cause we start to look for it too late. Actually we should, you know, look for Alzheimer's, for example, which is still, which is now the biggest.

More people die with Alzheimer's than any other illness, I believe. Um, and Alzheimer's before the first symptom of that is created 20 years. So you had 20 years of developing Alzheimer's before your first symptom. So really, we should all be doing things to actually prevent. Alzheimer's. Um, prior, prior to actually becoming a symptom.

If we did that, then you, you think of the healthcare, uh, even in the nhs, cost saving benefits plus life expectancy, life quality, everything that goes with it. Um, and that's just one illness.

Matt: Yeah, it's interesting. Is it, cause they do a, I mean things like the breast screen, the breast screening programmers had a massive impact, hasn't it? On uh, breast cancer instance cause they catch things early enough. Um, but you're right, there's, there's, there's a whole lot more that I guess we can test for now with modern science and the way it is and early markers and stuff that we can know about ahead of time, which is gonna

Jack: well, we know what we can, we can tell what people are genetically predisposed to it. You know, at the end of the day, if you can, you, we know the, uh, APOE E4 gene. Um, if you've got that, then you, you are, um, genetically pre more likely to develop Alzheimer's or dementia. Um, And most people say, oh, well why would you want to know that?

I'm like, well, because knowledge is power, you can then choose to do something about it. Same thing if you were predisposed to more likely had the higher likelihood of, uh, developing lung cancer, you would never smoke a cigarette in your life if you had been told that already. You. And you could also put a, um, a program in place to try and reduce the likelihood of that actually, um, you know, manifesting.

Matt: Listen, uh, Jay, this I mean all super interesting and if people wanna find out more about the program that you guys do, that you offer, um, or, or just wanna reach out and connect, maybe got a few questions for you. What's the best way for folks to do that?

Jack: Yeah, I mean, more than happy for anybody to reach out and connect. Um, my on, uh, LinkedIn is probably my most active profile, so I'm, I'm Jack Latus on there, so it should be easy to find me. Um, And I, I run that profile myself. So if you send a dm, I'm on there, or I'm trying to get back onto Twitter, um, which, um, I've not been on since I think 2013, but I'm trying to get back on there and do a bit of a brain dump every so often on there.

So that's Jack Latus. Um, and then there's the, um, our, our website as well. If you go to latushealth.co.uk, you'll see everything we're doing on there, and you can contact our clinical team through there too.

Matt: Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, listen, Jack, uh, we will of course link to, uh, all of those on the show notes as well. So if you subscribe to the newsletter, you will find those in your email, no doubt about it. But Jack, listen, genuinely enjoyed the conversation. I'm really intrigued about the aging thing and uh, uh, good to talk a little bit about CrossFit cause why not?

Cuz we can. Um, so, uh, thanks for coming on the show, man. Genuinely, really, really enjoyed it and really psyched about what you guys are doing.

Jack: Thank you very much, Matt. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed it.

Matt: No problem. No, it is been great. It's been great. What a great conversation. Huge thanks again to Jack for joining me today. Also, a big shout out to today's show sponsor Aurion Media. If you're wondering if podcasting is a good marketing strategy for your business, Do connect with them at aurionmedia.com.

That's a u r i o n media dot com. I don't think they'll be able to reduce your biological age, but they will be able to help you with your podcast. Uh, if you want your biological age tools check, uh, and of course, they will be linked on the podcast as, uh, on the podcast website as well, which is pushtobemore.com.

Now, be sure to follow the Push to Be More podcast wherever you get your podcast from, because we've got some more great conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss any of them, and in case no one's told you yet today, you are awesome. Yes you are. It's just a burden you have to bear. Jack has to bear it. I have to bear it. You've gotta bear it as well.

Now Push to Be More is produced by Aurion Media. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Estella Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak. Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the website pushtobemore.com.

That's it from me. That's it from Jack. Thank you so much for joining us this week. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.