Pushing Beyond Comfort | John Rich

Sadaf Beynon: Hey there, and welcome back to Push to Be More. I'm Sadaf Beynon, one of your co hosts, and today we've got another great conversation about what it takes to make life work. Joining me today is our special guest, John Rich. And I'm excited for us to hear about his unique life experiences, the hurdles he's had to push through, the ways he recharges his spirit, and the steps he's taking to be more. In other words, it's all about push to be more. This episode is brought to you by Podjunction, where we're all about helping businesses share their stories and build real connections through the power of podcasting. Being part of the team at Podjunction, I've seen firsthand how podcasting can be a game changer for reaching people and for making real impact through meaningful conversations. Now, I know a lot of you listening are leaders and entrepreneurs. And if you're curious about what podcasting can do for your business, or if you're wondering where to even start, head over to podjunction.com we'd love to help you and make the process clear and approachable for you. Podcasting offers a unique way to expand your reach and connect with your audience in ways that you may not have considered. And honestly, it's way easier than you might think. So head over to podjunction.com and see what podcasting can do for you. And now meet John. John is the founder of A Rich Opinion, a PR and marketing firm born from his bold decision to challenge the status quo in an industry that often settles for good enough. After a career spanning politics, tech, and strategic communications, John set out to rewrite the rules by seamlessly blending PR and marketing to deliver tangible results. When he's not helping small teams achieve big wins, he's tackling the ups and downs of entrepreneurship with grit and creativity. John, welcome to the show.

John Rich: Thank you so much, Sadaf, for inviting me. I'm excited.

Sadaf Beynon: It's great to have you, John.

John Rich: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: As you know, I run Podjunction, which is also the sponsor of this show. So the first question we like to ask is, if you had your own podcast and could invite anybody to be your guest, who would you have on as a guest and why?

John Rich: So we briefly chatted about this before we hit record, and I was going back and forth and I'm going to risk being cliche here, but I think the person I landed on was Elon Musk, and I'm sure you're going to ask me why, and so I'm happy to go into it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, Please do.

John Rich: You know, of course he's successful, you know, loved by many, disliked by many. But I think, you know, as I've gotten older, I've realised that thinking differently and not approaching problems or everyday, just everyday topics through the light that everyone else does is as I'm, as I grow older and as I kind of continue along in my business, that you kind of need that element of thinking differently. And I think, and I think with him, not only just through whether it's creating the first, you know, electric vehicle at scale, certainly. I mean, we saw his company catch, you know, essentially a reusable, you know, rocket thruster, which I don't think has been done. Pretty sure has been done before. And so clearly his, his approach to solving problems, approach to listening people is, is different. In a lot of his interviews, he thinks differently as well and is really unafraid, you know, in terms of how he thinks about things, his opinions. And again, that has led some to not like him, but has led a lot others, you know, to like him and has led to him success. So, you know, I would just be curious to see where he's gotten that from, how he developed that, because I think that is developed at a young age and I think I am more so growing into that mould where I am trying to go with my instinct, you know, and lead with my creativity, my ideas, my intuition, versus just trying to be safe when it comes to my business, my clients, my solutions, things of that nature.

Sadaf Beynon: I agree, I think he's a real interesting person and I agree with all that you've said. He's successful, he's unafraid, he thinks differently. The way he comes at things is so out of the box. Yeah, I love that too. I also find it interesting that you've said that his intuition and his instincts are also probably from, he's probably got those from a young age. And I wonder too what his story is. You know, if you get under all those layers, what kinds of questions would you want to ask him?

John Rich: Well, I mean, I'm fascinated by first off, his upbringing, I think typically. And again, I have, maybe we got into it, but I have two young boys and I had a fresh third two month old. So, you know, I think I've thought really hard about how to raise children and kind of, you know, how do I equip them in ways that I wasn't equipped. And as I, as I grew up and my upbringing and you know, I see a lot of themes and this, this notion of privilege, safety, comfort I think is very Harmful in a way when you're raising people or just in the human sphere. I think for too long I have been comfortable in my career. I have just said, hey, I get paid well, I have a home and I'm blessed and I'm thankful every day for those things. But at the same time there needs to be a push to be more. We need to kind of challenge ourselves and get uncomfortable. And so some questions I would ask him were in reading some of the stories about how he and his Partners Co founded PayPal, which is, you know, one of the first kind of online, you know, payment platforms. Certainly it's more than that, but just hearing stories of, you know, instead of him renting an apartment, you know, he slept in their office buildings, you know, on the couch every day and put in, you know, 18 hour, 18 hour days and things like that. And most people wouldn't do that. And it's, and that we would probably see that as normal. It's like, no, I'm not going to slum it in an office building. But at the same time he was driven, he was young, he had an idea, he went for it. And so just to understand his thought process through all that and just kind of to hear how he would explain that and why he did that, I think would be really fascinating and very encouraging for anyone that would listen.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I agree. And also interesting what you said about your kids. I think parenting really does have a way of unearthing a lot of our own motivations and what we're trying to pass on to our kids.

John Rich: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And understanding, you know, also that it's not too old, you're not too old to change, you're not too old to, to try and accomplish more, to try and challenge yourself, your ideas, how you approach things and just, just trying to grow, trying to be a better human. And so it's just again, thinking differently. Right. Is certainly people that have a full time job, great. I have that. I might end up going back to that quite frankly, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think testing myself or testing, you know, challenging yourself in different ways, I think to your point, helps you realise who you are as a person. I think helps you grow as a person. And maybe if you make more money or provide value or employ people, that's, you know, that's a plus if you do that along the way as well. So if it's, it's just again, thinking differently and looking at things in a different manner to, to try and grow and be and, and do more yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: No, I, I completely agree. And actually you talked about challenges. Why don't we jump into that? Tell us about a challenge or challenges that you have faced in the past. I know you've kind of alluded to some, but would love to know more.

John Rich: Yeah, I think from, just from a, from a, from a larger like, development phase. You know, I've, I've always felt comfortable and you know, my dad always told me like, once you feel comfortable, you need to kind of move on to a different role, a different job. And so I've really tried to, to do that, but I've always, I always sought comfort. And I think my biggest regrets is being a young person out of, out of undergrad is instead of trying to necessarily make a lot of money or trying to, you know, get an apartment and go in line with, with everyone else, I wish I had an idea or I wish I was focused on something so, you know, so adamantly that perhaps I was okay with maybe sleeping in a car, you know, for a couple years or, you know, you know, living in an apartment that was a closet for a couple years and focused on something. And I think that is a challenge that I've had to overcome mentally is just, hey, you know, you need to embrace the challenges. You need to face them head on instead of just trying to, you know, get by. And I'm not saying we need to seek problems or seek challenges, but you know, if you have a dream or a goal, go after it and you know, learn to learn to deal with adversity. And so that was one. And I think more specifically about, you know, when I started my own company, it it the understanding that when you have clients, and when I first started this, I had a handful of clients that said that they were, hey, like, we're interested, we're gonna go. And so when I left my full time job, I assumed that all of them would come like, hey, well, verbally they said it, they're like, hey, we'll do business, you know, we're interested in what you do, we need your help. And so naively I took that as those folks were gonna, were gonna employ me, were gonna work with me and everything would, knew that there would be a bit of a Runway, right. I think whether that's six months, 12 months of like, hey, you know, this is, this is going to take some time, but we'll be fine. And I quickly realised that a lot of those folks are like, hey, you know, money's not there or we'll do it next quarter or you know, we have something we want to roll out first. And, and so a lot of those folks didn't come with me and I'm still kind of developing them as leads and staying in touch with them. But I think one challenge, if I had to speak to entrepreneurs is just, you know, prepare for the worst and hope for the best and, you know, really prepare for worst case scenarios, really tighten up, really, you know, be lean and just hope for the best.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. So if you were to go back and do it all again, and I know you said your clients wouldn't like, didn't end up coming with you, how would you have done things differently?

John Rich: That's a good question. I would have focused more, I would have focused more on the business development aspect. I mean, I did and I had some, some, you know, pipeline, like platforms or ways. Right. So, you know, whether that's creating content, whether that's having some sort of like a HubSpot, you know, outreach system, whether that's some of these marketplaces where you can pay for leads, I probably would have leveraged all of them more, more aggressively. And furthermore, I probably would have expanded what my, what my role was or I guess what my, my concentration was. I think early on I perhaps overlooked some leads that maybe were not in the industries or the lanes that I wanted to be in, thinking that, you know, it would, it would get a little easier. But that was not the case. And so I probably would have expanded my practise a little more. And then as I got more clients or as I developed more skills, really focused on a lane that I felt I could excel in and really focus on those customers.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, that makes sense. How did not having them come with you and just that walking through or navigating that process, how did that shape your approach then to your business? And I guess maybe even go further about how did that whole experience affect your, your life outside of the business as well? Because I'm sure it would have had a knock on effect.

John Rich: Right? Yeah. So, you know, I probably. Sorry, would you mind re asking that question?

Sadaf Beynon: Sorry, I did lay a lot on you.

John Rich: No, it's good.

Sadaf Beynon: All right, so maybe tell me first how, how that experience shaped you.

John Rich: Yeah, okay. I think it hardened me. I think what, what I realised was that this is going to be a lot harder than I thought. And I kept telling myself, hey, if this was easy, I think everyone would be doing it right. Everyone would be, you know, wealthy, everyone would be, you know, doing their own thing. So it hardened me as an individual in a good way. It forced me to Address some of the inadequacies about my business model. It forced me to address my practises and it, it, it, it forced me to kind of again, think differently and say, hey, I need to. Maybe now I need to. Initially, I didn't have a HubSpot type platform where I did cold prospecting. And so because I didn't think I would need it and now I was forced to learn it, I was forced to understand how that platform works. You know, I was forced to get out of my comfort zone of creating content on LinkedIn, you know, some of those things. So I think it forced me to think differently and address, you know, some of those issues.

Sadaf Beynon: So, yeah, no, that's.

John Rich: Sorry, my God, one second.

Sadaf Beynon: It's okay.

John Rich: Thankfully, this morning has been a little interesting between, you know, setting up and everything else, so I appreciate it.

Sadaf Beynon: No, not at all. Yeah, so you, you mentioned that it hardens you in a good way. And I think as you were saying that it was, you know, I was thinking like, actually life is full of disappointment, disappointments and challenges and it's really how you respond to those that really makes you, doesn't it? And I love to see that, that it forced you to, it forced you into growth and to look internally and how to make it better for yourself rather than to be hardened and, you know, be disappointed and walk the opposite direction. So that's, that's very cool.

John Rich: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would say too, just on that, again, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not necessarily disappointment or what yield comes from that. It's about addressing it. Right. I mean, I think you're not going to be successful all the time. I mean, life literally, you're going to fail more often than not. You just hook that your failures are minimal or low value and that you can bounce back. Right. I think, you know, we're trying to teach my children. I think what we need, we need to, we need to learn as business owners is that, you know, we need to fail cheaply. So we need to try things that may be the failure, the value of that failure is minimal. It won't necessarily have a large impact on us and we need to do that as often as possible, whereas certainly we need to take bold decisions and that needs to be calculated. But making to your point, I just want to, I think that's a great way that when you, you face disappointment, it's how you react to it. When you fall, how quickly will you get back up?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And actually going back to what we were talking about earlier with Elon Musk, you were talking about his, his, you know, at a young age, he must have learned to have those particular instincts and that intuition which he's been probably honing over the years then. It's interesting to hear you talk about your response to your failures and your disappointments. And I'm interested to know if there was something in, in your upbringing that helped you to be able to respond in such a positive way to this.

John Rich: You know, that's a good question. You know, there's. To be truth, to be truthful. I, you know, I didn't incur a lot of challenges, I think, as a kid. And I think that's what kind of, throughout most of my life led me to kind of seek comfort. Because, you know, whether it was being an athlete or being at school, I think I always kind of, you know, in the opposite of your question, I think I always kind of glided in a good, in a good sense. And I'm not trying to say I'm smart or athletic. I just, I just, you know, I don't think I ever really push myself because I was always, you know, doing well. I was always, you know, making sports teams. I was always doing well in class. I didn't necessarily have to push to be more. And I think that, you know, settling in that, that, that layer of comfort, I think was. Was a little detrimental, quite frankly, as a young person. And now I'm starting to realise that as I'm a father and seeing that I need to lean into it or to my point, you know, there's certain things, even in this current job that I enjoy doing more. So. And, you know, I'm trying to lean into that so that I can become really good at, you know, whether that's editing videos or whether that's, you know, you know, do, you know, doing messaging or simply, you know, speaking or working with clients. I think learning to be really good at something specific, I think is a. It's a good, It's a good business. But also it. If, if you like doing it, you're good at. Good. If you're good at it, you're going to like doing it, right? And so this kind of, this, this flywheel of this repetitive of, like, I like doing this. I'm really good at it. I'm making money off it. Oh, I'm having more fun. I'm making, you know, where I'm being more successful. And so I think that's, that's really, I think what, what has to happen, you know, in order to, to be more and, and build something.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, no, I, I hear what you're saying because earlier you said that your dad would say, don't stay in the comfort. So I guess I can see the picture. Yeah.

John Rich: Yeah, yeah. I wish I listened to him a little more, I guess.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, you're passing it on to your kids. You did hear him.

John Rich: I'm trying. I'm trying.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. So what would you say has been the toughest part of going solo? And how do you think that's helped you grow as a leader?

John Rich: Realising that no one's there to save you, that no one is going to back you up. I mean, certainly have a great support system with my wife and family, but. And friends and some mentors. But at the end of the day, no one's coming to save you. When you work at a company or in a corporation, you can hide behind maybe your supervisors, you can hide behind the work of your teammates. You have maybe associates that maybe can help kind of do some of the grunt work. But at the end of the day, no one's coming. And when you have clients that are on monthly contracts, whether it's three, six, 12 months, you know, you have to show enough for them to remain a client. Right. Whereas if you're an employee, you know, all you have to really do, show up, be kind and get the work done. I mean, let's be honest, right? If you're, if you're an employee, you don't really have to go above and beyond. You just need to be kind. Don't start drama at work. Show up on time and just do the work you're assigned and you'll be fine. And so here, as an entrepreneur, someone that does it myself, you know, I have to do everything from basic research to, you know, to high level presentation. I mean, everything needs to be done by me. I can't counter anyone else. And if I fail, no one else is going to come save me. So just realising that, you know, I'm, I am me, it is just me and I need to, I need to, I need to succeed. I need to complete the task, you know.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. So do you have a team around you?

John Rich: No. No. I mean, I have, I have contractors or vendors. Right. Whether it's certain creative work, I can lean on people perhaps for different writing projects, you know, but in terms of the actual work, no, there's, I don't have a team around me. I think I've certainly called mentors about specific. Whether it's contract negotiation, whether it's navigating something, something that I've never done before or just certainly speaking to my wife often, just asking her opinion, you know, so in, in that sense, I have a good support system, but as for a team, no, I don't. So.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, sounds. Well, running your own business is quite, well, all consuming, I, I, yeah, I gather. So how do you make sure you're being able to show up for your family, your business? How do you do that?

John Rich: It's a great question. When I have the answer, I'll let you know. You know, it's, it's, it's constantly just trying to juggle things. It's, it's constant thought on if I'm doing things the right way. You know, it's, it's, it's a constant struggle which, which is, which is beautiful. Right. I think it's facing challenge and trying to figure out the Rubik's Cube of life, family and business, I think is very difficult, but it's a challenge worth striving for. It's a challenge worth trying to solve. So.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Do you have certain habits or certain things that you do on a, on a consistent basis to, to help you decompress?

John Rich: I like to go outside. So sitting, speaking, spending all day at your desk, as I'm sure anyone can imagine, can, can get very tiring and monotonous. So I like to go outside. I do a lot of yard work, you know, in the summer growing seasons, we have a couple garden beds and I put in some fruit trees that I maintain. And right now kind of building a tree house for my boys and then hoping to kind of build some other structures on the property. So just trying to get outside and work with my hands and get some fresh air because, you know, being stuck in this room is, is, can feel like a jail cell sometimes.

Sadaf Beynon: I can imagine. Yeah. It's interesting. I think being in the elements, being outdoors really does have a rejuvenating effect on your, on your body and on your spirit.

John Rich: 100%. Yeah. Just getting outside, obviously the vitamin D from the sun, just walking, you know, just understanding that, quite frankly, also, you know, life is more than work. So when you're walking outside and you're just taking in the elements, nature, you're realising that, you know, it's, it's maybe a mistake you made earlier, maybe you made, made a mistake on a phone call or you did the wrong thing or, you know, you spelled the client's name wrong accidentally. Yeah. And you're, you're very upset or just annoyed by it. You Know when you walk outside, you just kind of realise, hey, listen, tomorrow's a new day, the world keeps spinning. You know, it's, it's a good reset. Just to remind you that it's, you know, everything will be okay.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Looking at your journey, what does growth mean to you today?

John Rich: Well, certainly. Well, I'll take that from, I'll take that from the business side. What does growth mean to me? I think it's really finding. You know, I feel like I'm good at a lot of different things, but it's really finding, hey, what do I want to focus on and where does my business go from here? Right. Because business is going to evolve. Businesses always evolve over time. And so growth for me is kind of realising the value that I bring to my clients. And more specifically, what, what do I bring to them? What, what makes me special and different from other people? Right. Because I'm a marketing PR person. I'm a dime a dozen, you know, that there's plenty of us out there. There's plenty of capable, really smart, intelligent people with a lot of media relationships. Right. And so understanding what makes me different, how I stand out, and when I truly find that, then I could really start to build a strong business, bring on teammates and, you know, bring more clients on and really deliver results that I want.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I hear you. It's hard to, it's hard to understand how to differentiate in certain industries, isn't it?

John Rich: Yeah, it's. In, especially in my industry, it's. Things are constantly changing. The digital landscape is different. You know, someone, you know, I talk about pr marketing, and I think it's really hard to, you know, I guess separate the two right now. To me, I think prior marketing and content, or you can say brand too, perhaps. I think all them are just, it's one, it's one bucket. And typically under a corporate structure, you know, they, they are typically under the VP of marketing. You know, it's all essentially a marketing function, but I think more and more as the digital media landscape continues to grow, I mean, it's been growing for, you know, 15 years. 10, 15 years. I think it's just going to continue to grow. And so the, the, the, the traditional function of, of media relations and pr, there's, it's still there, you know, but when you forecast five to 10 years, I think it's just, it's, it's going to look much different. And I think marketing and PR and content are going to come closer and closer together to kind of be one, one single kind of industry. Or lane, essentially.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. So how do you see this change then, shaping the future of your business?

John Rich: Well, I've been trying to lean into content more and I think in the last five, especially the last five years, but in the last 10 years, I think people are starting to realise the power of social media and that it's simply not just, you know, a platform to post pictures and connect with friends. I think, you know, when you look at platforms like Substack and LinkedIn, very much B2B focused platforms that if you're not on right now, you are years behind. You know, if you're not putting time and effort into those platforms, into creating content, quality content to put on those platforms, I think you're very far behind. I believe that the media landscape is dramatically changing. Traditional media is, I hate to say it is dying. I think there's certainly still going to be a role for it. But, you know, we've seen, you know, stories of layoffs from local publications to national publications and I think there's still a tonne of value in having a good public relations or PR function. But if you're going to continue to hope and put resources into securing media placements to boost your own brand, I think especially for younger startups, smaller firms that I work with, putting all your eggs into that basket, I think is, is going to be very challenging and the ROI will not be there. And so for my business, it's trying to get my clients to focus on creating quality content as much as possible, to not only build a community on these B2B platforms, LinkedIn, Substack, you know, Twitter X, whatever you want to call it, and then as you grow, you know, there's this kind of domino effect where you, you can get better placements, you can get more recognition and perhaps you're getting mentioned by maybe, you know, a tier 2 or tier 1 publication.

Sadaf Beynon: So where do you see the greatest opportunities for, for growth then in your business and your as well?

John Rich: In my business, it's video. You know, I've been really trying to understand, you know, how to video edit. And so what I do from my business perspective is I kind of see myself as a Swiss army knife for kind of these younger, younger companies. And so I'm able to, you know, do the media pitching, you know, place the marketing ads, so not only paid marketing, but developers develop the marketing content, right? And so doing the basic graphic design and then, you know, helping them shoot videos and edit videos. And so right now I'm trying to learn how to really perfect the craft of short form videos. Right. So, you know, 15 seconds, 30 seconds at most, you know, understanding how. What types of videos and what techniques really grab the attention of people online. Right. I think Mr. Beast. I don't know. I'm sure you're aware of Mr. Beast on YouTube. I mean, I listened to an interview with him, and, you know, he was. Granted, he was well ahead of the YouTube curve, but he was so focused on what got people engaged. And, you know, before he was giving away, you know, $10 million in Africa, you know, he. He was focused on, you know, what techniques and tactics in the first three seconds, the first 10 seconds, what. What gets people engaged. He was very interested in understanding the analytics behind his videos and why people were dropping off and doing all these different things. And so that's kind of what I'm trying to do right now, is understand, learn some of those techniques and tactics so that I can do that, you know, for my clients, and hopefully, you know, they'll see the results from those. I think, you know, from a growth perspective, again, it's just understanding where to put my efforts in, not only in my business, but as a. As kind of an individual, you know, how early do I need to wake up? How hard do I need to work? You know, what is important, right, Is this email that I have to get off. More important than spending time with my family, you know, you know, spending time with my wife after the kids go down, you know, is this. Is this assignment more important than the quality time I'd spend with her? You know, how does that add up, you know, in my personal life and in my relationship? So it's. It's a constant balance and understanding, you know, where do I invest?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I hear you. And I love how you described yourself as a Swiss army knife. I think that's great. But I also understand that it's hard. It be hard to find that balance, and being or doing everything at the same time is really, really difficult to pull off.

John Rich: Yeah. Yeah. And I talked to, you know, some friends that have pretty established businesses now, and I asked them. I was like, hey, like, how do you juggle, you know, your other obligations outside of business? And some. Some guys are like, hey, I had to work, you know, 60 hours a week, 70 hours a week. You know, one of my friends worked on the weekends for the first, like, three years. And it just. It's, you know, and so it's that constant question of how much do I put into it versus, you know, how much do I take away from my family or from my friends or from my hobbies, you know, it's that constant balancing. And so at a certain point you have to make a decision every day, but also on a larger picture point, you have to make a decision about your life. Like, hey, do I want to make this work or do I just want to have best of both worlds? And is that possible to have the best of both worlds?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, and I imagine it would be for a time as well. It's not forever in a day.

John Rich: Yeah. What's the point? Right? I mean, if someone said to me, you know, like, hey, if you work 80 hours a week in your business for a year and then after that year you will, you know, become a millionaire and you can build out a team, right? To me that's a, that's a no brainer, right? I would, I would totally put that time in. Even if it was, if it was two years. You know, I think the question that a lot of people have when they start this is, you know, if they're in the middle because a lot of people are so motivated that again, they're willing to work really hard. But I think a lot of people, at least the question I'm having is, you know, is it going to take three years, is it going to take five years? You know, what is, how does that, you know, what is, what's, you know, how do I, how do I, how do I reconcile that? You know what I mean? And so it's, it's a choice that you kind of have to make every day and just try and do your best.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I realise this might be a bit far off at this point, but how do you see you or yourself, you know, as you bring on potential team members, how do you see your, your, your, your leadership style evolving as a, you know, as, as you do that?

John Rich: Well, I think specifically bringing on teammates. This, you know, I have this vision of, I think where business goes in a sense, learning from. I've had incredible bosses and I've had the, the, the, the privilege of kind of seeing different business models essentially being up close. And I think as I bring on team members, I actually don't want, you know, technical employees. I think bringing on kind of a cooperative of contractors and vendors together that are aligned I think is the best model and I think that's the best way to be a leader. I don't. Employees are sometimes hard to motivate and I think sometimes hard to keep accountable. Not all of them and probably most of them are very good. But I think when you align incentives with, hey, you know, I need someone to be a copywriter. So, right. In an ideal world, I'll have someone that does the copywriting, that maybe does someone that does the creative elements, and someone that does the, you know, graphic design. Right. And so we could all kind of team up together to have responsibilities on a client project and then just basically say, hey, you know, we're all going to share in the growth of this client. So if you're able to do a good job. If we're all doing a good job. Excuse me. If we're all doing a good job, you know, we can capture more, you know, more revenue or you get more success, you know, based on how well you do. And I think that's probably the best model in terms of motivating and so just finding the right people and empowering them. One of my mottos has always been, let's not make perfect the enemy of the good. Certainly we want to be detail oriented and making sure we're doing a good job and the right thing. But also, you know, I've learned when I've managed seven clients at a time for, you know, other companies, it's, you know, it's very easy to overanalyze. It's very easy to try and be perfect and do the right thing. But at the same time, you know, we just got to kind of keep moving and just make good product and be confident in what we're doing and then keep going and keep going. So I think that's a really important leadership style. It's just empowering people and aligning everyone's incentives.

Sadaf Beynon: That's cool. It sounds like your varied experiences before you got to this point has really helped shape some of your ideas for how you want to run things. You yourself, when, when the time comes.

John Rich: Yeah. And I think one of the biggest elements that I. The reason I like working and one of the main reasons I started working from my own is just the transparency and honesty. I think oftentimes when you're working with the clients on behalf of someone else, you have to really be careful about what you say. And I'm not going to sit here and say I, I act any differently than I was when I was an employee, but it's just understanding you're representing an another brand or someone else in your business dealings, you know, and so, for instance, in, in an old company I used to work for, you know, we had a very strict offering of like, kind of pr. Like we, we had certain elements of our business, whether that was drafting newsletters or we had certain answers to questions and those were, we were really good at those answers. We were really, really good at those deliverables. And so we really, every answer to some of those questions were those elements. And over time I saw that, hey, we should be offering different things or hey, they really need these things over here. Whether that's a different service that maybe we can provide, but maybe it's not cost effective or maybe we can't deliver on that particular project. And so, so we always steer them back into this. And so I think part, a large part of the reason why I went on my own is just having the honesty to say things like, hey, I'm probably not the best person for you or like, hey, this is not gonna work or you know, my favourite example is, you know, clients often want to spend, you know, 20 grand on a, on a, on a sizzle reel or, you know, three minute video. And I'm like, yeah, that it looks great, it's going to be, you know, 4K quality, that the imagery is going to be awesome. I mean it's going to be a really good product. But at the end of the day, is it going to drive the impact that you want? Are you going to get the leads from it? Are you going to be able to use this in a different, a lot of different varieties and oftentimes I find, you know, certain projects like that don't have the roi and so maybe, you know, in my old company, you know, we're friends with the video contractor and so hey, like, hey, yeah, let's do, do, let's do this video. I think it's going to look great and that might not necessarily be the case. Right. And so again, having the freedom and the transparent transparency to be honest with clients, I think it's a huge weight off my shoulders and why I love working for myself.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And that would be such a gift for your client as well. They might not see it right away, but, you know, being upfront like that, I think is, is really is the best way to go.

John Rich: Yeah, yeah. And I, I think people respond to it well because I think again, at the end of the day, you know, cultivating clients and retaining clients is just being yourself and being honest. And I think if people are comfortable with you and can rely on you and know that you're being honest with them, I think that goes a long way. Especially if you make a mistake, which we're all going to make mistakes, is so long as you're honest with them in your successes, in, in your failures, you know, I think they're going to continue to rely on you and count on you as, you know, as a friend, you know, but as a business partner.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I agree. And I think it also helps, helps you leave a mark as well, that this is what I stand for as a business. This is what I do. And that's where your reputation begins to grow.

John Rich: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I mean, and I also sound found that, you know, the easiest business leader referrals. Right. And so if you. It's really hard to capture new leads, potentially especially my field because again, there's so many of us. So, you know, focus on delivering for the clients you have and so that they feel so confident and comfortable in referring, you know, you out to, to their partners or to their friends. And so I've learned that while obviously business development is incredibly important, making sure you're achieving and you're exceeding the value you promise, I think is a huge way to get more clients.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, that's very good, John. If any of our listeners want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

John Rich: LinkedIn is my best publication or my best platform platform. So averichopinion.com on LinkedIn, no spaces after the handle. And my website is average opinion.com and my name is John Michael Rich on LinkedIn as well.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. So we'll make sure to link to your info on the show notes, which our listeners can get for free along with the transcript at our website pushtobemore.com awesome, John, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

John Rich: Thank you, Saraf. This has been a lot of fun. I really appreciate it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, right back at ya. Well, that's a wrap on another great conversation. A massive thanks to John for joining us and sharing a part of his inspiring journey. For transcript or show notes, do swing by our website pushtobemore.com A big thanks to today's sponsor, Podjunction. For all you change makers out there contemplating podcasting as your new vehicle of expression and connection, please do come connect with us@podjunction.com don't forget to follow the show wherever you get your podcasts because we've got some seriously compelling conversations coming up and we don't want you to miss any of them. So from John and from me, thanks for joining in. Have an awesome week and we'll catch you next time. Bye for now.