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Uncharted Paths to Greatness and the Courage to Walk Them | Dan Roberts

Today’s Guest Dan Roberts

Meet Dan Roberts, a high-energy personal trainer, movement coach, and the secret weapon behind those Hollywood blockbuster fight scenes! Juggling roles as a strength conditioning maestro and a cherished mentor to fellow trainers, Dan also finds time to create revolutionary workout systems like Methodology X and NUK S00. As the dynamic Managing Director of the Dan Roberts Group of Companies, he's not just a London local but an international sensation, transforming fitness landscapes both online and across the globe!

Are you settling for the ordinary or daring to stand out from the crowd? Dive into a conversation that challenges the clichés of success and pushes the boundaries of ambition and risk-taking. The path to greatness is uncharted; are you brave enough to walk it?

Here's a summary from today's episode:

  • Dan emphasizes the importance of individuals constantly striving to grow and learn in their careers. This could include taking new courses, setting weekly improvement goals, or other forms of personal and professional development.
  • Both Matt and Dan discuss the value of becoming so skilled and well-known in a field that introductions become unnecessary. This includes building a strong personal brand and achieving a level of excellence that demands attention.
  • Dan and Matt explore the idea of being more ambitious and taking calculated risks in one's career. Whether it's setting up freelance work or pursuing bold career moves, they see stepping out of comfort zones as a key to success.

Links for Dan

Links & Resources from today’s show

Sponsor for this episode

At Aurion Media, we're committed to helping you set up and run your own successful podcast to grow your business and impact.

"You know what? I have found running my own podcast to be really rewarding. It opens doors to amazing people like nothing else I have seen. I have built networks, made friends, and had a platform to champion my customers, my team and my suppliers. I think just about any entrepreneur, or business leader should have a podcast because it has had a huge impact on my own businesses." - Matt Edmundson.

Is Podcasting Right For Your Business?

This is a great question and one we think you should really think about. Podcasting is proving to be a great tool to open doors to dream clients, network and build phenomenal customer relationships. But we know that podcasting might not be right for everyone. That's why we have put together a free online workshop to help you decide if Podcasting is right for you and your business as well as to understand what is involved for you.

Is Podcasting hard?

It certainly doesn't have to be. The technology has got easier and cheaper, so the trick is making sure your strategy is right from the start. Most podcasts end because it was started on a whim or even a good that just wasn't thought through or planned. Once you've got that in place, it's then about the right guests and consistency which all comes down to the team that you have around you that can help with this. No worries if you don't have a team...Aurion has a series of done-for-you services that can help you get the right strategy and bring the consistency you need to have real impact on your business.

Want to know more?

Visit our website for more info. We'd love to help!

Dan: [00:00:00] I'm a fitness instructor, I'm not an entrepreneur, I'm not a managing director, I'm not a CEO, however I've been kind of put in this position, or not, I've found myself in this position, I should say, where now I'm running companies. And had to employ people and five people and, uh, raise funding and do, do all kinds of stuff.

And I, I wasn't really trained for that. I'm, I'm a coach, you know what I mean? I'm a fitness instructor, . So I guess the biggest challenge was learning the business side of things and realizing that that's half of it. You know what I mean? could, like, I love coaching and I prefer coaching than behind the scenes running a business.

But if I don't do that stuff, I'm not gonna see the clients I wanna work with or build the programs. Do the things I want to do on that side of things. So, I think that's been the biggest challenge, for me. Developing the business, the business acumen, guess in

Matt: Welcome to Push To Be More with me your host Matt Edmundson. Now this is a show that talks about the stuff that makes life [00:01:00] work and to help us do just that today I am chatting with Dan Roberts about where he has had to push through, what he does to recharge his batteries and to be as well as what more looks like for Dan.

The show notes and transcript from our conversation will be available on our website. website, pushtobemore. com and whilst you're there on our website, you can also sign up for our newsletter and each week we will email you the links and the show notes from the show automatically, they get sent direct to your inbox, totally free, so do check that out.

Now, this episode is brought to you by Aurion Media, which helps entrepreneurs and business leaders set up and run their own successful podcast. Why would you want to do that? Well, It's a pretty insanely good marketing tool, not gonna lie, uh, I have found running my own podcast to be really rewarding.

Opens doors to amazing people like nothing else I've seen. I've built networks, [00:02:00] made friends and had a platform to champion my customers, my team and my suppliers and so I think just about all of us should have a podcast for our marketing efforts simply because. It's had such a big impact on my own business.

And if that sounds intriguing and you kind of go, well, Matt, there's all kinds of problems with your theory. Like, I don't know the technology. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Well, that's fine. That's where Aurion Media help you. You see, they take all of that off your plate. You just get chat to amazing people.

They take care of. Everything else. So if you're wondering if podcasting is a good marketing strategy for your business, do connect with them at aurionmedia. com. That's A U R I O N media dot com. Now that's our show sponsor. Let's meet today's guest, Dan Roberts, a high energy personal trainer, movement coach and the secret weapon behind those Hollywood blockbuster fight scenes.

Oh, yes. Juggling roles as a strength [00:03:00] conditioning maestro, and a cherished mentor to fellow trainers. Dan also finds time, because you know, he's not busy enough, to create revolutionary workout systems like Methodology X. He's the Dynamic Managing Director of the Dan Roberts Group of Companies. He's not just a London local, but apparently a bit of an international sensation.

Transforming fitness landscapes, both online and offline. And across the globe.

Dan: bless.

Matt: Dan, that's quite an intro, man. Welcome to the show. Great to have you. How are you doing?

Dan: I'm doing good. I'd like to employ you as my PR manager immediately, please. You make me sound so wonderful

Matt: You know, I wish I yeah, well I wish I could take credit, that's the production team at Aurion Media writing all this amazing stuff, I'm just like, I love it when they rewrite bios for clients, you know, and they,

Dan: Yeah, I definitely didn't write that. Yeah, I love it though. Thank

Matt: It is great, [00:04:00] isn't it? It's great. It is. Wonderful. Well, welcome the show, man. I'm excited because before we, uh, hit the record button, we were just chatting away. I was a little bit late getting on the call 'cause I got sucked into your website. Uh, the Dan Roberts website, you just get drawn in.

You just get sucked in. Uh, it's a, it's a, it's a very good Um, So, yeah, I mean, one of the things I discovered, and my opening question on these podcasts

Dan: Yeah,

Matt: the, I call it the podcast question. If you had a podcast and you could interview anybody, past or present, had a profound influence on your life, who would that be?

But, it turns out, you don't just have one, but two two of your own podcasts. What's that all about?

Dan: um, silliness, greediness, lockdown.

Matt: Ha

Dan: Uh, you know what though, like, like I'm sure you agree, it's an amazing marketing tool,

Matt: Mm.

Dan: you know, and um, and also, I'm always a fan of doing things which help my business but also help me develop as well. And I found that podcasting has helped me be a bit [00:05:00] more succinct, um, learn how to kind of be more interesting when I have a limited time.

It's, um, it's forced me to kind of improve, I guess, my communication skills. Uh, so that's half the reason why I set it up, and the other reason is I have different brands, different products, and I have podcasts attached to different things I want to promote. For example, I have one product which is like a workout mainly for fashion models, so I have a podcast which is kind of dedicated to that, and I interview fashion models and fashion industry people.

Also, I mentor quite a lot, I mentor quite a lot of personal trainers and strength coaches, and I have another business as part of the group which looks after, which educates and mentors coaches. So it made sense to set up a podcast linked to that. I mean, they're both quite small, to be honest. They're not like yours, but, um, they're fun, and it's just, uh, yeah.

I'm sure you've found it, too. Like, you, you, uh, you discover how bad you are at things when you first start, and you have to, like, quickly improve. Do you know what I mean?

Matt: Yeah, there's that rapid improvement. I always [00:06:00] found with podcasting, um, and with all the clients that we're involved with, it's the first 10 episodes. If you can get through the first 10 episodes, life is a lot more simple, uh, with podcasting. You start getting your groove a little bit, um, but it's getting through those first 10 episodes that people really struggle the most with, uh, which I find quite, quite, I don't know why there's a magic number of 10, but, um, how long have you, how long have you been doing your podcasts?

How long have they

Dan: Uh, I set them up during lockdown, like everybody else, I think. Um, and they just sort of carried on a little bit. I'm not massively consistent, like, you know, once every few weeks I'll do an episode. Uh, it's not my main thing, but I love it. I really enjoy it. But I actually prefer being a guest more, because I don't have do anything.

I just have react. You, like, are thinking of questions, and like... Thinking of like, is this recording? Shit, is recording? I don't worry about it. So I'm very relaxed right now and I much prefer being a guest.

Matt: Much prefer being honest. they have to ask the questions. It's up to the host

Dan: We have to kind of, you have to think about the timing as well, because I know like, [00:07:00] I don't quite know what you're going to ask me today, but I'm sure there's some sort of structure going on. And like, we're, if we spend too long on one thing, then you have to bring it back and you have to always kind of.

Be engaged but also thinking about the other stuff and I don't. I just have to listen to you and talk to you one on one. I don't have to worry about anything. So, uh, yeah, I've got the easy role today. So, yeah,

Matt: Well, thanks. Yeah, I mean, no pressure on me then, uh,

Dan: Yeah, be amazing. That's what I heard when I read your bio

Matt: Just

Dan: my company. They said you were the best podcaster ever.

So, I was like, fine. So,

Matt: let's do it.

Dan: come Bring it

Matt: write my PR. So you've got these podcasts, right, which you started in lockdown. And so let me go back to our question. Maybe they've been a guest already, but I'm curious if you could have anyone as a guest on your show, past or present. The only caveat is they've had to have had a profound influence on your [00:08:00] life.

Who would be on your guest list?

Dan: Hmm, that's a really good question. Um, with my, with my, I'll give you an example because it's someone I really wanted to have on and I, he was actually my last person I did have on and I was really chuffed. Um, uh, on my business podcast, I, I interview or chat with, uh, trainers I admire over And there was a trainer in LA called Gunnar Petersen, who was like in the, well, even nowadays he's like one of the top kind of like A list celebrity trainer.

He used to train the LA Lakers for a while, uh, Kim Kardashian, Dwayne Johnson, uh, Sy Stallone, that's trainer for a while. He's trained like a lot of people. And back when I first started coaching. Uh, when I first did my qualification, I had like this, many years ago, 25 years ago, I had this dream of like, flying to Hollywood and training, training, training Hollywood stars and that kind of stuff, which was [00:09:00] so unrealistic, um, but he was at the time the top trainer and I was like, for the last like, since, you know, for the last 10 years I've always wanted to meet him and have a chat with him.

And having the podcast gave me an excuse to actually reach out to him and have a, you know, chat with him and build a relationship and have a good conversation. And we're still kind of like friends now. And it was like, it was really cool because podcast gave me an excuse to reach out. Because I didn't really need a reason to talk to him. And when someone's on a podcast, you can ask them like, Hey, are your challenges? How did you do this? How did you do that? I can really interrogate them, where if I went for a beer with this guy, it'd be really weird if I asked him all those questions. So, um, yeah, so it was Gunnar Peterson and I had him on and it was brilliant.

It was what I wanted it to be.

Matt: fantastic.

Dan: my answer.

Matt: That's a great answer because it's a, I just, you picked up on a point there which is really important that actually when you're speaking to someone like we are now on a podcast, the conversation [00:10:00] has to get to a very good place very quickly and it. And you can't, you can't do that over a beer or a coffee.

You have to have several beers, I think, before you can get as deep into the conversation. But whereas on the podcast, you, you, everyone expects to get there quite quickly. the remarkable thing about doing the shows. And so the fact that you have done this with Gunnar Pedersen, I think it must have felt really, really special.

Dan: Yeah. It was great. It was really cool. And I've also, I felt, I didn't feel like in awe, it was just nice because I'm not this 23 year old going, wow, that's amazing. I'm 46. I've kind of hit my career goals. So I didn't, it was, it was nice just to. Like, listen to his story, and I could relate to some things as well, rather than just, being all deferential, I could actually understand his journey, and it was, uh, yeah, it was cool, it was a nice conversation.

And we now have a working relationship, which we didn't have before, you know?

Matt: That's the other thing, isn't it, it's um, I find that if I reach out [00:11:00] people... Um, like, uh, you know, celebrities in your niche is a, is a one to better expression. The higher ups niche or the, um, people that have just written a book, authors, those kind of people that you go, I just wish I could have a conversation with, this was such a great book.

I would love to have conversation with them. If you go, oh, I host this podcast, you fancy coming on? They're like, sure, man, because they've got to promote the book. So it's a really interesting way of connecting with people. So out of that interview then with Gunnar, what were some of the things that stood out to you?

Dan: um, it kind of just reconfirmed what I kind of figured out already that to kind of make it in my industry, you have to be patient, have to be really patient and you can't really ever stop, you know what I mean, the biggest, like in my kind of world of like personal training, the hardest thing is actually to stay relevant as you get older, that's one of the biggest battles.

Um, with the rise of social media, everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame out so often, but to actually stay [00:12:00] relevant for. 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. That's hard. And um, I've tried to do that, he's done that, quite a few other people over the world have done that. And uh. It's, they never stop. You know, they're always quite humble in terms of they don't think they're the best.

They're constantly doing courses. Like he did like, I mean, I'm constantly doing new qualifications and it was nice to hear that he also recently finished a qualification he did online, like another fitness one. And the guy, you know, coaches L. A. Lakers. He like, didn't really need more qualifications, you know?

But he's doing it just for his own personal development and that was nice to hear. It was nice that it wasn't just connections. You know,

Matt: Mm.

Dan: actually also hard work. Oh, and in LA, you know,

Matt: Yeah. I have be honest. I'm not a fan of LA, but that's just me. It's um, one of those things where, um, this staying relevant. that you talk about. also the humility, being humble. Those two things seem to go hand in hand, don't they? Because I feel like if you get to a place where if you feel [00:13:00] like you've attained, um, like you don't need any more qualifications, like you don't need to go any further, that's probably the fastest way to become irrelevant, I would have thought.

Dan: I totally agree. And also at LinkedIn, I'm in a bit of a niche in my world. Like, um, I'm a trainer, my company like looks after like private clients, nearly all of them are in the entertainment industry. So we're very much in that little weird, wanky little niche of celebrity training world.

Matt: mm,

Dan: There's a lot of, like, what you see in this little small world of, like, celebrity training is, as soon as someone trains someone vaguely famous, they shout about it loads, like, and then that kind of guarantees you know that their career isn't going to go up, you know, if you shout about training, like, someone who was on Hollyoaks, you're not really going to get Brad Pitt calling you.

You have kind of be quiet about it and do your work and slowly over the years, you know, you, if you're in that particular world, you build a reputation behind the scenes, you don't talk about it on Instagram. Actually, that ruins your career in that world If you, if [00:14:00] you sort of show off too much, uh, because production companies don't like it, agencies don't like it.

So you have to, you have to actually be humble. Not just because it's a nice way of being and the correct way being morally as a human being, but also on a business point of view, it's actually business sense to be humble, shut up, get the work done, build a reputation behind the scenes. And that's kind of what the top people in my little world, um, who've been around for a while are all doing.

Some of them might have like presences, but they're doing a lot more amazing things behind the scenes and the right people know what they're doing, not the public at large or not Sun Magazine or TikTok.

Matt: Mm. Super powerful, isn't it? And I imagine, actually, if you're, if you're training a lot of celebrities, that keeping their confidence is probably one of the key things. Like, can they trust you that when they're in the gym and they do something silly, that you're not going to go and tell whoever. Do you know what I mean?

That, that ability to trust you and keep quiet on Instagram, I can see why there's longevity [00:15:00] with that.

Dan: particularly in that crowd who are constantly, you know, if you, if you hang out with some A lister, they are way more nervous than you or I, um, about being exposed about something because they, they're so used to people kind of like taking pictures or trying to find out their secrets.

So sometimes it's a bit of time for them to warm up to you. And if you lose that confidence, not only will they not hire you, but they'll tell all their other friends and their agent and their production company, Hey, no, he wasn't good. Don't hire him. So it, you have this like trickle effect where it will kind of, eventually, it will mess up, I think it will mess up your career, if that's your career, to train these people.

If you're doing it just to say you've transformed famous, which a lot of people do, then they'll talk about it and then, then they're done.

Matt: Yeah.

Dan: And they'll use to sell something else. I mean, a lot of people do that. They'll train someone famous, say, Hey, I'm a celebrity trainer. But in fact, they don't train any celebrities.

They're just doing online training and they're trading off the fact they once trained Hugh Jackman once seven years ago, for example.

Matt: Yeah. When he stopped by in a hotel. Maybe you

Dan: Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's a lot of [00:16:00] that kind of stuff. You know what

Matt: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: you have to like not get involved in that. If, if actually your real clients are in that world, you have to kind of remember that.

Your job is to help them. And as a coach, it's quite easy to be humble because I'm not supposed to be famous or well known. Like, I'm supposed to shine a light on my clients and help them succeed. If I get any kind of like, uh, fame or get written about, I guess that's nice, but it's not really... I'm not the star here.

My client is the star. I'm the coach. So it's weird when coaches, I think, become bigger than their clients, or try to become bigger. I find it very odd because if I wanted to be a star, I'd be an athlete or something. I'm a coach. I should be, I'm part of the support crew. Does that make sense?

Matt: Yeah, totally. And it's, I'm just, as you're talking, uh, Dan, I'm kind of thinking to myself that I can, I can see why you've had the longevity that you've had with that attitude. And actually just that, if I just think about business as a [00:17:00] general rule, the ability to think about the client and put the client's needs ahead of your instant 15 minutes of fame on Instagram or whatever the, the pressing thing is, you know, the,

Dan: Yeah, even, even short term profits as well. I mean, even that, yeah.

Matt: yeah, whatever the, whatever the things are, and just to serve them for the long term seems to be a winning strategy, you know, you're 47, I'm 50, been around a little while, seen a few things, and you kind of go, yeah, there, there are some things which, which do work in the long run, and actually that's one of the, one of the things in the long run.

But I'm curious. I mean, I've read a little bit of your story, um, but I, so I'm, I'm, I'm trying to figure out a way to answer this question, but did you sort of wake up one day and go, I'm going to be a celebrity trainer, or was this just sort of something that you stumbled into?

Dan: Um, a bit of both. I mean, I, I started coaching when I was 16. I was a sports coach those five years of my career, various different sports. Um, and after a few of a, [00:18:00] doing random things, I started personal training or strength and conditioning coaching technically, uh, in my early twenties. And when I first started, I was, uh, I had an athletic background and I wanted to train athletes.

So my goal was to train athletes. Uh, and I put all my focus on that for a good sort of 10 years. That was my goal.

Matt: Mm.

Dan: Then, like, and I kind of reached that goal. I was looking after a national sports team, a lot of, like, Olympic athletes, Commonwealth Games athletes. I kind of got to the top of the world of strength conditioning.

Um, and then I was randomly, I was, I've lived in a lot of different countries, and I was living in Brazil, living in Rio de Janeiro, and totally by accident, I started, ended up training, uh, quite a few Victoria's Secret models, who are quite a big deal. It's, it's very random, but, um, and that's when I started training the models, and I'd never really trained people to tone up before.

Um, but it was quite interesting because when you train like famous models, you suddenly get invited to parties. And I didn't get invited to parties [00:19:00] when I was training like rugby players and football players you and it was like, and it was suddenly when I got back to London, suddenly like Vogue started writing about me.

No magazine had ever written about me, even though I was training like, you know, really good athletes and, you know, really technical stuff and I was really proud of my career at that point. But no one had heard of me. This was before social media as well. But as soon as I started training people in the public eye, suddenly I got more attention and it opened a lot of doors to various things.

And then when I realized that, I was like, well, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go all the way. So I want to train, like, A listers. So I did have, at that point, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna... I'm going to be strategic about it, which I of was, and I, and I did it.

Matt: so you're kind of strategic about it. Um, and is, is an interesting phrase. So you got invited out by Universal Pictures, I read in, in 2011 to work on a film, was

Dan: Yeah,

Matt: first,

Dan: that was my film.

Matt: yeah. How was [00:20:00] that? I mean, you know, go within what you can actually tell the story of given what we talked about earlier, but I'm kind of curious.

Dan: well, it was so long and I didn't, I didn't sign an NDA for that one, so it's fine. It was, uh, it was for Snow White and the Huntsman. That was my first film, and I was training the lead cast. Um, What's interesting about that is, like, a lot of, a lot of times in, I think it's in all business, but particularly in the world of coaching, there's a lot of luck involved, particularly the first time you train, like, your very first client.

Imagine you've just become a qualified as a personal trainer, your very first client, you've got no expertise or no experience whatsoever. kind of lucky they believe in you, to be honest, because got nothing to back it up. first time you train an athlete, you've You know, and that's their job, and you're looking after their body.

That's kind of lucky. First time you train someone on Hollyoaks, or someone, or someone super famous. It's kind of lucky. So, um, I got lucky to get that gig. I was recommended by a trainer in L. A. who basically told Kristen Stewart, you have to see Dan. Now, that made it a lot easier. [00:21:00] Because, because I had like a direct referral.

And that was lucky because that trainer in L. A. knew me, and I had looked after a few of his clients in the previous two years. Not famous ones, but I'd looked after some of his clients before when they were in London. And I did a good job, and then when he was, he's involved in a lot of films, it's not Gunner, it's another trainer, um, He, he recommended me to Kristen Stewart, who was a lead cast.

So then she went to the production company and said, I want Dan Roberts. And then they're like, fine. And then they put me on. So that, that was lucky because just because I knew that guy's called Jason who kind of recommended me to Kristen. That's luck. That's luck. You know, then my, then my job, then my job is to kind of not mess up.

a good You need to do a good job. And then basically, which means get the results, which is needed. Whatever they are specifically in the time frame and do it in a way which is enjoyable for the talent and also You communicate well the stunt team the producers and [00:22:00] the director So it kind of flows and then funnily enough two years later you get another call from Universal say oh, hey, we like you We'll do it again in it.

It rolls like that. But the very first time was was lucky It's not like I went out to LA knocking on doors I got a phone call saying, Hey, do you mind training, uh, Kristen and Charlize for this film? All You know, so that was lucky.

Matt: think of worse things to have to do. Um, I mean, you say it's, it is luck. And I, I do get that because, you know, um, some of the stories that I have from my own business, you go, well, that was, I was in the right place at the right time. But I'm also aware, I can't remember who was it that said it.

Now, was it Michael Jordan? Is it, was it him that said, the more I practice, the luckier I seem to get? think, I think there's an element of, in your story, you get the call from Universal, because you treated The client of another trainer really well, you did a good job, and actually there's a case of proving your craft and your worth in things [00:23:00] that maybe aren't as shiny,

Dan: Yeah.

Matt: and actually by doing that, you start to create these opportunities for luck to get involved, Um,

Dan: exactly right, Matt, but that's why you have to be patient because these connections take time. You get good at something and you prove your work behind the scenes as well, and then suddenly something happens. So look at an actor, you know, if some actor gets like a. A role out of nowhere, you know, like Austin Butler for Elvis, you know, like not that famous, but it's not like he was a bad actor.

He must have been an incredible actor to audition for that Elvis film. You know what I mean? It wasn't just like, did it on the spot, you know? And like, not many people knew he was an amazing actor, but in Hollywood, the right people knew he was amazing. That's why he was one of the guys who auditioned. So you do stuff behind the scenes, you do your job well, and then you have to, I think, you can maybe improve your look slightly by having good connections, but you can't completely control what kind of contract is going to come into your [00:24:00] business.

What you can control is what you do when you get that work. When you get a big new client, you can control how much attention you put on it, how good a job you do, the results get, that's what you can do. But you can't always control that initial,

Matt: Mm hmm.

Dan: that initial work. Do you get what I mean?

Matt: Yeah, I do, totally, and I think you're totally right, and I think it, again, just looking back over, over life, it's like, if I work on me, like you, you're constantly getting more qualifications, going up with, constantly getting more qualifications, you know, you work, self improvement, trying to make myself better, and the clients that I have in front of me, I'm going to serve them, even if they're not an A list celebrity, I will serve them as if they are.

The more I do that, the more connections I make, the more connections I make, the luckier I seem to get. To get lot of ways, right? And I think it's probably a fair reflection, isn't it?

Dan: yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm very, very lucky now because I've got 30 years or so behind me of trying to do the right thing behind the scenes, not, not screwing anyone over, being kind, helping [00:25:00] people. And all that is kind of goodwill, which builds up behind the scenes.

Matt: Mm.

Dan: So now life is like running a business is a piece of cake now because of all the work I've done in the past.

And The Good will i have , sort of built up, hopefully.

Matt: So what have been some of the challenges, Dan, that you've faced along the way?

Dan: think anyone who runs a business, there are some, I mean, I'm a fitness instructor, I'm not an entrepreneur, I'm not a managing director, I'm not a CEO, however I've been kind of put in this position, or not, I've found myself in this position, I should say, where now I'm running companies. And had to employ people and five people and, uh, raise funding and do, do all kinds of stuff.

And I, I wasn't really trained for that. I'm, I'm a coach, you know what I mean? I'm a fitness instructor, . So I guess the biggest challenge was learning the business side of things and realizing that that's half of it. You know what I mean? could, like, I love coaching and I prefer coaching than behind the scenes running a business.

But if I don't do that stuff, I'm not gonna see the clients I wanna work with or [00:26:00] build the programs. Do the things I want to do on that side of things. So, I think that's been the biggest challenge, for me. Developing the business, the business acumen, guess. So it's a bit of a woolly answer, it's not like major event, um, but it's just...

Yeah, it's just been gradually kind of just learning how to run a business, multiple businesses, and it's, uh, I don't know, how about you? What's

Matt: I, I, you know, I, I, I totally agree with you, I'd agree with you in a lot of ways that actually you, when you go to school, they don't teach you how to run a business. Um, you know, I, you can go and get an MBA. I, I don't have one. Do you know what I mean? I suppose there's a qualification I could, I could get, but

Dan: mean, I've actually got a business degree, my first degree was in business. I didn't anything relevant to running a business, yeah? At all, nothing.

Matt: Wow. I'm not quite sure what that says, really. Um, it's an interesting one. I mean, I did an accounting degree, uh, which I, I, [00:27:00] I came out of my degree. I did accounting and law and thought I never want to be an accountant. I never want to be a lawyer. Um, that was what I learned on my degree. And I suppose I, I learned how to interpret figures and how to read a balance sheet, which has proven to be very helpful, actually, in running your business and getting an intuition for figures.

But the ability to deal, for me, running a business, um, is, a lot of it comes down to how well you deal with people. And actually, you, you will have learnt this in spades in coaching, do you know what I mean, in terms of trying to get the best out of people. As you build a team, it's the same thing, I'm trying to get the best, I don't, I'm not the Chief Financial Officer for our business.

You know, Michelle, she is, she runs all of that. My job is not to do her job, my job is just to get the best out of her that I can. Um, and I'm, I'm guessing actually that coaching, what you learn in coaching has probably proven to be quite helpful, I would have thought.

Dan: I [00:28:00] think so. I think so. I mean, it's hard to tell because I, I've only got the experience, I've only got the knowledge I've already got. You know what I mean? I can't go back in time and not know how to coach people. And it's so ingrained because it's all I can do really that I can't help but, um, So when I, you know, I like people which helps, you know what I mean, and like I can't, I can't help but try and motivate them because my job usually, you know, I'm quite a positive person and I can't help sort of naturally be like to be a coach in all my relationships.

I have to kind of sort of dial it down a little bit when I'm talking to people. I realize not everyone wants me to give them advice, you know, because when people hire me, it's like they want my advice. Normal life. They don't, I'll have to kind of watch that a bit, but, um, yeah, I'm, I'm sure it did.

I'm sure it did. And you learn about anything which helps you learn about the human condition, I think makes you a better manager. Um, but it's not like you don't mess up. I mean, know, like in terms of employing people, that's a tricky one, you know, get right. I don't know anyone who's like, yeah, I knew exactly what to do and it was perfect.

I talk to people [00:29:00] like, yeah, I did this mistake. I'm not doing that again. Did that mistake, never did that again. And that's usually how we learn by making it so cliche. But we make mistakes. then you try to repeat them and I know with me, I've made a lot of mistakes, but I've never, loads of mistakes, but it's never really worried me that much.

Like, you know, because it's like, okay, I'll learn from that. And I knew it was like, I knew it was like part of my kind of story, as it were, and it's the best way of learning.

Matt: yeah.

Dan: I don't really what I'm answering there,

Matt: yeah, no, I'm really intrigued listening to you talk. Does that mean for you, do you deal maybe with regrets differently as a result of that type of thinking?

Dan: I deal with regrets differently? Um,

yeah, I mean in terms of, I can't really think what regrets I have in terms of my life so far. So I guess I do, because I must be. I'm sure if someone else looked at me, it's like, my God, you don't regret this and this and this, [00:30:00] but in my head, in my head, I, I don't really have any regrets because it's all part of it.

I mean, I think it comes down to how you see running a business in your career. I mean, if you see it as one big battle, or if you see it as like a thing to, to, to achieve, like you're only successful if you hit X amount of money, then I might regrets, but I see it as an adventure. Like, I see life as an adventure, I see running a business as the perfect adventure, where you have an adventure.

In essence, it has to have ups and downs, it has to have things you're not sure about. Like, if I knew exactly how my business would, like, what it would be in two years time, it would be just as depressing if I knew exactly how my life would be running in two years time. And if you imagine your life ahead now, if you knew exactly every day what was going to happen until the day you died, it would be...

So philosophically depressing, you'd probably want end it if you knew exactly, we need mystery, right? So it's quite, if you see running a business as an adventure, then things happen like pandemics, you're like, Oh, this is exciting. How shall I [00:31:00] pivot from having a gym to suddenly being online, which I had to do, you know?

And I was like, it's quite interesting. It's quite exciting because I've been in a lot worse situations. So it was like, you sort of take things on the chin and you think, okay, this is a nice test. How can I, how can I test my stoicism and test my creativity? So I've had like, when you asked at the beginning of the show, like what challenges, I've had various kind of challenges, but I haven't really felt that hard because I've been quite confident that I can get, get myself out of it.

And that, and that's, that's come from a, that's come from a few, the confidence is really important. I think when in business, and for me, I know specifically where it came from. Like I, I've started from scratch quite a few times. I've moved to, uh, what did I start off, I moved, I started from Australia working as a trainer.

I didn't know anyone there, did a qualification, did well. Then I moved back to London, and this is before social media, so you don't have any reputation, built a business there. Moved to New York, I've moved to New Zealand, I've moved to, where else did I move to, uh, [00:32:00] Brazil as well. I've lived in quite a few places where I've started from scratch, had no contacts, and just rocked up.

With, you know, not a massive amount of money, but a, you know, a CD and gone, okay, I've gotta, I've gotta find a place to live, I've gotta find work and I've gotta do this by myself. contact, no money. And I've done that quite a few times, like started from scratch and because I've done that, I don't really, like, if I was gonna go bust now, I wouldn't really worry me that much.

'cause I know I can build a business from scratch I've done it in various countries. And that confidence means you can deal with pandemics or with. Employees leaving or whatever, you know, whatever may be.

Matt: Yeah, super powerful, Super powerful. So the, this sort of confidence then, because you started up, is that something you've always had, like as a kid growing up? Is that something that came from the family? Or is that something that just, you were literally thrown in the deep end when you moved to Australia and had to figure it out?

Dan: It came [00:33:00] from my, my, uh, my silly brain. I get bored really easily and when I was, um, I also get really inspired really easily as well. Like, even now, like a kid. When I was 17, I got really into reading Beat Generation books. These are writers in the 50s. Jack Kerouac is probably the most famous. Um, Neil Cassidy, Lawrence Villangetti, Allen Ginsberg.

And there were these bunch of writers in the 50s. Actually 40s and 50s in America who kind of lived life and they wrote about it. A bit Hemingway, and it was like a little scene where they kind of, they wanted to really discover the truth in life, so they experimented with drugs and sex and religion and travelling, and it was all very exciting when you read this stuff when you're like 17, you know?

And um, and I remember I was sort of saving up money to go, my first trip I went by myself was a trip around America. Um, when I was 18 and I got a job, I used to be a tennis coach. I got a job teaching tennis in New York and I saved a bit of money and I did like greyhounds like all the across [00:34:00] America.

Um, and that gave me the confidence to then sort of really get into traveling. When I was like a late teenager. Then when I was 19, I went to South America by myself, got a one way ticket to Peru and just spent six months traveling around. And that was cool. Then I went to India by myself and I did all these like travels by myself with literally no budget.

Uh, and just having to kind of like feel my way round and that gave me a lot of confidence. So by the time I was like 23 or so, when I started my business, it felt quite, it felt like, Oh, it's another part, it's another adventure to have being self employed. You know, it wasn't that nerve wracking because I figured I'd managed to handle like a civil war in Bolivia, or people banging on my door in, um, in, uh, Senegal trying to beat me up, and all random experiences, or drug dealers in, in Indonesia, various things you get involved with, you know, things happen when you're sort of traveling around by yourself when you're young, and if you can handle all of that, then setting up a little business How hard can that be? that's, [00:35:00] that's kind of like the mindset. And then, um, I said, I see running a business as like an adventure. When I was in my twenties, I saw it as like, you know, trekking the Himalayas and stuff. Now I get much more of my, my kicks from. Creating programs, building qualifications, running my business, that I find more fun than solo trekking somewhere, you know,

Matt: Yeah,

Dan: because I'm, because I'm not 21 anymore.

Matt: I gonna say, this is a different phase of life, isn't it?

Dan: Exactly, you know, well getting married, you know, when you get older, getting married is a bit of an adventure, but if you're 18, getting married is the worst thing in the world. But when in your 30s, maybe. So, things change as we, uh, hopefully as we evolve and as we grow through life.

Again, I'm just, I can't remember what you asked, but I'm just talking. So,

Matt: No,

Dan: I'll be quiet

Matt: all good.

Dan: now.

Matt: you've got this business then, which obviously you pivoted during the pandemic. You said you had a and then you went online.

Dan: completely yeah.

Matt: So you're now complete, so all your programming is now done online. Um, are you still [00:36:00] flying out to Hollywood on occasions?

Dan: Um, no, that's, that's starting back, um, probably like September, October. But no, for the last, uh, last couple of years, I've just, once I realised I had to be online for a while, I decided to go all in, because I'm kind if you're going to do it, do it properly. And we already were online beforehand, which again, was lucky.

Like, you've mentioned that there's some programs I've written in the introduction. I'd written a couple of programs which are like online programs, which are like subscription models, which people pay every month. Luckily, they were set up and filmed and all done and dusted, like about a year, year to two years before the pandemic.

So when the pandemic hit, um, luckily the sales for those,

Matt: You were just in the right place at time.

Dan: so lucky, so lucky. Um, if the pandemic hit 10 years earlier in terms of my career, I'd have been financially screwed. Just because I was old and I had these things, I was, I was lucky, but I decided, um, I decided I was going to kind of use this opportunity to make sure my [00:37:00] business is completely future proof and completely, uh, bulletproof in terms of when there's another pandemic or something else happens.

Cause I've never really thought about what happens if there's a pandemic until it happened, like a lot of people. So I don't want to, don't want to imagine it happens again in five years. I don't want to be like, Oh God, I should have prepared for it. It's no excuse. So I want to make sure now my business is completely set and it's nearly there now, uh, where.

Yeah, we don't need to do anything like face to face. Well, we don't now. We don't need to do anything face to face. We can run quite well online. Not the retreat business. The retreat business I had tanked, but that'll go fine I think in six months time, but the businesses I run, yeah, fine. So yeah, I'll be, once I have a bit more time on my hands, end of the year, I'll be, I'll probably, I'll be doing more trips.

Matt: Okay, so what does the future look like? What's growth look like for you and, and, uh, Dan Roberts group. Where's it all? Where's it all going?

Dan: It's a really good question. It's something I've had to kind of, I kind of re evaluated this when I was, like, during the pandemic, [00:38:00] because my business was going in a certain way. Like, just before the pandemic, we had established partnerships with a few high end hotels, like Four Seasons and Shangri La and a couple of others in London.

We were kind of, the plan at the time was to expand into hotels, like, around the world. I'd like to have my programs in there and to train up the staff. And since the pandemic happened, I don't want to do that anymore because it just seems too much hard work. Sounds really bad, but I don't really want to do it anymore.

Um, so, uh, now, I'm focusing on another part of my business, which is the developing trainers, but making sure that it's all automated. Like, I've got courses and qualifications coming out, and I quite like helping coaches and helping trainers out, but I want to have programs they can buy and things they can buy where it's all, it's all done automatically, as it were.

Because I quite like not killing myself working. I used to work, like, six in the morning.

Matt: yeah.

Dan: I live outside of London, I live in Surrey. I used to cycle to London, which was like an hour [00:39:00] cycle ride, get there for like half six, seven, work all day, come back like at 10 to 30 at night, and I do that six days a week for about seven, eight And it's like, I've put my hours in, and I was like, you know, I've done way over 30, 000 hours of one to one training. You know, it's a lot. Um, I kind of want to just spend a bit more time with my wife, a bit more time at home. So I'm trying to like slow down. I'm not trying to retire or anything beyond that, but I'm trying to make it have a little bit more of a balance because I haven't really had balance in my life before.

So uh, yeah, ambition's been, yeah, so I'm kind of like not as ambitious as I used to be, I guess, but you know, I'm happy.

Matt: Well, it's a different kind of ambition now, isn't it? It's a, it's a different type of desire.

Dan: hit my main goals, you know, like my, when I was a trainer, I had very clear goals about the kind of people I wanted to work with and the money I wanted to earn. And I hit those goals about eight, nine years ago. So everything else to me is like kind of a bonus, you know, and it's been nice to kind of like, feel like, kind of like, [00:40:00] proud I guess, or kind of feel happy when I look back at my career, like, yeah, I've set out to do something and I did what I wanted to do and I'm enjoying it, and there's a process of actually I've set out Enjoying your work as well.

I think there's a danger, I mean I work with a lot of very high achieving people and there's a danger of when you're so goal led is you never enjoy the moment. You're always thinking about the next thing, the next thing. And I don't really want to be like that. And I've met some incredibly successful people who aren't massively happy because they're always striving for the next, you know.

I trained a guy six months ago who was worth 90 million. And he was pissed off because he wasn't worth a hundred. That's

Matt: Wow,

Dan: mentality you need to to make a hundred That is the mentality. But it's not the mentality you need to have to have a balanced, happy life.

Matt: no, no, and actually that's going to drive, uh, yeah, I mean we could talk about the philosophical views [00:41:00] on that point, but one of the things I am curious about, Dan, before we... Before we wrap up, you've obviously, you've put in 30, 000 hours training people. So you will have learned one or two things about what motivates people during that time.

So give us a little bit of insight into that. What, what have you discovered is some of the key motivators for people?

Dan: Well, I think mainly, I think we have to remember that motivation is largely bullshit. Because the most successful people out there,

Matt: love

Dan: um, they create routines. You what I mean, like the most, I don't think people who, like CEOs of big companies, they don't need to log on to Pinterest in the morning and get some motivational quotes to get them going.

You know, quite often enough, things go on in their life, um, relationships or family stuff which is hard, they still go to work, no matter The people, athletes, who are, you know, top athletes, who are training like five, six, seven hours a day, they have times when they have breakups, they have times when they're sad, times when their money's tight, times where mental health is tough, you know, like [00:42:00] everyone, they all go through ups and downs, but they still turn up to training, they still do it, because it's in their, it's in their routine.

So, I think creating routines is far more powerful than kind of waiting for motivation. Sometimes people feel like, sometimes I'm very motivated, sometimes I'm not very motivated, but I still get my work done no matter what. So, I think, I think waiting for motivation or trying to be more motivated is too emotionally exhausting.

I think it's much better to create good habits and then you don't to think about it, like brushing your teeth. If you brush, most of us brush our teeth every morning because it's a bit rank not to, and we do it and we just, we don't think about it. Imagine... Doing a 3K run every morning. If you're not a runner, that's horrendous.

But if you get into it, after like a year of doing that, that's your routine. And you find a way of doing it. And if you talk to really fit people, I mean look, even Obama did an hour of exercise every day while he was in office. He managed to find time. If it's important to you, you find the time. So if you know yourself, and that's the key thing, knowing yourself.

If you know [00:43:00] yourself, um, then you can kind of figure out ways to kind of incorporate things which you know are good for you. Be it reading more books. Be pushing yourself more, be it getting out of the house more, whatever it may be. So you know yourself and you build a routine of doing that and then it's like this constant never ending, you know, like this Tony Robbins constant never ending improvement kind of thing.

It's, uh, it becomes so automatic you don't have to think about it.

Matt: um,

Dan: So I think that's the key to motivation is building a routine. There's an old saying, uh, you should form, what was it? There's an old saying I can't remember. I'm going to remember it. Nice dead air. Okay, I'm going to remember it. Form good habits and make them your masters.

That's it.

Matt: um, form good habits and make them your masters and that's

Dan: Yeah, then you have think about it. You don't to think about it. You know, like, I exercise every day. Not because I want to, because it's just part of who I am. It's part of what I do. I always manage to fit in some press ups or some squats or a little run or [00:44:00] something.

Um, and it's not even like I have, I don't really have any fitness goals anymore. I'm just, it's just so part of my routine and that keeps me healthy, you know. Same as having breakfast, same as taking a vitamin pill, whatever.

Matt: yeah, that's powerful, that's powerful. So actually part of your job then as a trainer is all about helping people build the right routine.

Dan: I mean, actually building a routine and actually holding them accountable

Matt: Mm

Dan: is a third thing, setting high standards for them, which is really important. Most people aren't ambitious when it comes to, uh, their goals. That's true in business as well as, uh, their body. Hold them, get them high, set them to high, you know, have high standards for them, help them set really high goals and hold them to these high standards by keeping them accountable and then create a journey for them to make it easy.

And that's it. And that's why, like, with coaching, to be honest, like, 90% is generic life coaching, facilitation work, 10% is the technical skill. Like, some of the best [00:45:00] coaches out there don't have the right, aren't, don't have all the technical knowledge. But because they hold their clients accountable, because they ask the right questions, it's amazing what they can achieve.

Matt: Yeah,

Dan: You know what I mean? That's how life coaching works. Like, hey, what are your goals? I want to do this. What's stopping you reaching those goals? Oh, this. What do you think you can do differently to help you reach this? Oh, I can do this. Okay. So if I hold you accountable every two weeks, what would you do? Oh, I'll do this.

Okay, get on it. Like, I don't know anything about their business, but I can actually ask the right open ended questions. To facilitate growth. And that's what, that's what a lot of time executive coaches and life coaches do. And really good ones don't need to have any kind of technical expertise. They just need to know about psychology and questioning.

So I think a lot of coaching is actually that, to be honest. Um, and less of it is actually the actual mechanics of how to teach a deadlift. I mean, that's important, but... I think when you're charging more money, anyone can kind of teach a bicep curl, to be honest. Like the difference between like a trainer who charges 10 an hour to someone who charges 200 an hour isn't really how they teach [00:46:00] the bicep curl, it's more to the, it's more about how they make their client feel and how they make sure they're accountable and part of the programme, it's the other things on the outside.

Matt: yeah. So what would your, um, someone who's listening to the podcast, uh, who's a personal trainer, they're in a gym, they're getting up at six, they're working until 10 o'clock that night, they're putting their time in, Um, but all they can see at the moment is just the grind of personal training in that gym, that that's sort of become their life. now listening to your story going, man, there's, there's, you know, there's all kinds of possibilities. How do they, what would your advice be them to sort of help them transition from where they are to, um, maybe thinking outside of the gym? Is it just basically everything that you've just said, re, repackaged towards, uh, being a personal trainer?

Or is there something else to it?

Dan: Well, I think the first thing is, is like, you have to put your hours in first. If you want to, like, We talked [00:47:00] about how there was luck, we talked about how I had luck in my career, and as you kind of rightly said, yeah it was lucky, but you also had, like you still knew what you were doing. Like it was lucky to train so and so film star, but I still knew what I was doing, so I didn't mess So, if someone's been training for like, let's say, two years, and they're Virgin Active, and they're training, and they're coaching clients every day, and suddenly, like, they get a call from Brad Pitt, and Brad Pitt wants to fly you out and teach, teach him, like, fight choreography. If you don't know, like, how to do fight choreography, and if you haven't got much experience, you're not gonna, he's not gonna immediately gel with you and like fly around the world him.

It's gonna be like, oh, that was a mistake. You might maybe have an hour session and you'll never see him again. So there's no point getting to that level unless you're ready for it. So what you do is you, you build up your skills so when, so then when you're ready to go to the next step. You can actually, you can do it with ease and it's not stress.

So I think when you're, if you're in that situation in a gym, make sure [00:48:00] that you actually are challenging yourself to be a better coach. For example, I used to do is after every client. I used to write down notes afterwards about what I did well and what I did badly, and I really strict with myself, and I really challenged myself to be better for that client the next session.

I was like, okay, so what does that client want? How could I have been better? What should I do differently this time? And I made that into a habit of constantly re evaluating, like, or evaluating how I was in that session. And then I'd constantly do courses and think, how can I incorporate what I've read or what I've read online, all that courses, and how can I...

How can I adapt that to help this client now? And I'm, I was really strict to myself about kind of forcing myself to be a better coach every week. I wanted to be a better coach this week than I was last week. And I did that again and again and again. And then, you know, I worked in a, I worked in LA fitness for a while.

And then, you know, I felt very much like I was ready to move on because I knew. Better more than everyone else. And I was the busiest trainer. So it wasn't like I was just bored. It was like, I was better than everyone else there. So it was ready for [00:49:00] me to then go freelance and work in Parks. I did. Um, but if I did it just because I was bored and I just wanted to make more money, I wouldn't have made it it's I kind of felt like I deserved it.

And maybe it's like arrogance, but I felt like every kind of level, I felt like I deserved to go to the next level. Cause I, I did the studying. And yeah. You have to put the hours in to feel like you deserve it. I don't ever want to have like imposter syndrome. You know what I mean? I want to feel like I, you know, if someone calls me and want to work with me, there's a humility, you know, there's always like a humility of like, oh, it's nice they've called me, but also on the flip side, there has to be a self confidence of like, yeah, of course they want to work with me.

And that's important when you, particularly when you're meeting like, working with very famous people, very, like top athletes or top Hollywood actors. When you meet them, you can't be like, oh my god, I'm such a fan. That's not the way forward. It needs to be like, alright, you're good at what you do, I'm good at what I do, let's partner up and let's get this done, you know?

That's what they, that's what they want. They [00:50:00] don't want someone going, oh my god, you're such a great actor. That's not the way forward. You know? And you can't, you can't have that confidence unless you know your shit.

Matt: Yeah,

Dan: And then when whoever rocks up, and you wanna work with them, you don't feel nervous You get flown out to train whatever you don't feel, oh it's nice you know you're humble, you appreciate it but when it actually gets to work you're like well of course they wanna work with me because I can help them this way this way and this way

Matt: yeah, mm,

Dan: I put the hours in. So going back to your question, the guy or girl in the gym, they need to get good enough that they kind of. Get to the next level. So they need to push themselves, do more courses, try and be better every week. And then that's, that's when they can start being more ambitious in terms of taking some risks.

Like, not you setting up freelance.

Matt: Yeah, super powerful. As you're talking, I'm remembering, I can't, I'm trying desperately to think of the author, but I can't remember his name, but I, I remember reading the book, Become So Good That They Can't Ignore You, um, [00:51:00] and I,

Dan: Yeah, yeah,

Matt: will back to me, and as you're talking, I'm thinking, that's exactly what that, that,

Dan: yeah, it's also linked to like, get so, be so well known you don't have to introduce yourself, you know, as well. It's the same thing, yeah. Um,

Matt: the same sort of thing, isn't it? Listen, Dan, super powerful, man, and um, really, really, I feel like I've got so many more questions, but alas, time is upon us, uh, and so, um, I'm grateful for the time you've given us already. If people want to reach out with you, if they want to reach out, connect with you, what's the best way to do that?

Dan: um, I guess, I guess going to my website would be quite a modern way of doing it, I suppose. Uh, send a fax, I suppose, send a

Matt: Send a fax.

Dan: Send a fax, send a carrier pigeon,

Matt: Yeah,

Dan: have a hope, just shout my name, you know what, shout my name really

Matt: really loudly,

Dan: see

Matt: what happens.

Dan: see what happens, that's they do. I could give you my website, but you know [00:52:00] what, it's so cliched, isn't it, and once one gets older, you don't really want to be cliched, so I'm not going to give you my website, they can Google, they can find me, if they really want to find me, I guess they can Google me,

Matt: If they really to find you, they will do.

Dan: just shout my name really loudly and see what happens.

Matt: Yeah, especially from, you know, somewhere like in Edinburgh, do it in Edinburgh see what

Dan: brilliant, brilliant, never know, but patience a virtue, be patient, be patient.

Matt: He'll be there at some point and answer, yes, no doubt.

Dan: All right, Matt, you,

Matt: really Dan, listen, man, thanks for coming on the show. It's been an absolute blessed and, um. Uh, I, really, really enjoyed the conversation. It's been, it's brilliant.

Dan: all right dude, take care, bye bye.

Matt: Thanks, man. Well, what a great conversation. That was huge.

Thanks again for Dan joining me today, uh, and also a big shout out to today's show, sponsor Aurion Media. If you're wondering if podcasting is a good marketing strategy for your [00:53:00] business, do connect with them at That's A U R I O n We will, of course, link to them on the website, push tobe more, dot.

Where you can also sign up for the newsletter and maybe, uh, short circuit the Googling Dan because probably all the links will be on the website as well. Now be sure to follow the Push To Be More podcast wherever you get your podcasts from because we have got yet more great conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss any of them.

And in case no one has told you yet today, you are awesome. Yes you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Dan has to bear it. I have to bear it, and you've got to bear as well. Now, Push To Be More is produced by Aurion Media. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favourite podcast app.

The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Estella Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak. Our theme music was written by... Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you would like to read the [00:54:00] transcript or show notes, head over to the website, www. pushtobemore. com. Now that's it from me. That's it from Dan.

Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week, wherever you are in the world. I will see you next time. Bye for now.