The Power of Podcasting: How We Grew Our Network

Matt: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Push To Be More podcast. My name is Matt Edmundson. Beside me is my partner in crime, Sadaf Beynon. She is the show's producer of Push To Be More. We are in our, let me turn the music down. Professional, Matt. We are in our production conversations for August, where we're just doing some smaller, shorter episodes.

Just talking about our podcasting journey a little bit, just being a little bit different. And we're going to start up again full swing in September. Uh, we've got about 70 episodes waiting to be recorded, so we've not got a shortage of guests, that's for sure. Um, in fact, we were talking, weren't we? We've not made a decision yet, but we were talking about, do we go to two episodes a week?

Sadaf: That's right. That's right.

Matt: Um, just because we have so many guests coming up on the show. It's a very popular show, uh, and I'd like to take all the credit for that, because it's all my own work.

Sadaf: You do that. No, it's a nice problem to have, isn't it?

Matt: [00:01:00] Yeah, it is a very, very good problem to have, uh, as you quite rightly say. Um, so yes, welcome to episode number two of our August series where we are doing things a little bit differently. Um, just wanted to do some shorter episodes, get some stuff out of there.

Full disclosure, we are pre recording these in July because we'd like to take it easy ourselves in August. It's not just you that has time off, but we like to have time off as well. We all do. It's August, isn't it? We all like to have a bit of time off. So, um, that's why we've changed the way, uh, we are doing these episodes.

But welcome to the show, it's great to have you, and I'm loving, I loved episode one, we are now on episode two, aren't we? We recorded episode one, we've gone literally straight into recording episode two. I appreciate that there might be a week's gap for you, um, yes, you're watching the video, Matt, you wore that t shirt last week, surely you have more t shirts.

We could totally blag it, I just change my t shirt every time. Sadaf, how was your week? My week was great. How was your week? My week [00:02:00] was fantastic.

Sadaf: well, I,

Matt: You still in Canada a week later? Oh, yeah, I'm still in a week, see. What are you doing in Canada? Tell, explain why you're in Canada. People might be going, why Canada?

Why are you there?

Sadaf: um, I'm visiting my family out here. And so we had, um, some holiday time, and then now I'm just, um, doing life here, working remotely. And, um, I used to live in Canada years and years ago. So it's like, um, it's like coming home.

Matt: It's like coming home. It is. It is like coming home. And it's great, isn't it, this whole working remotely thing, that you can do that. You know, such is the world in which we live. We can just work wherever we like, which is a beautiful thing. A beautiful thing, let me tell you. So I've chosen to work at the end of my garden.

Uh, in my man cave, which is where I'm

Sadaf: I like it.

Matt: episode from. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's quiet, it's peaceful. And I have a lovely view of the garden and the sun is shining outside, which is very

Sadaf: Yeah, it is nice in there.

Matt: Very good. So, what are we talking about [00:03:00] today, Mrs. Beynon?

Sadaf: um, so we are talking about our experience of, um, growing our network through our podcasts. And, um, yeah, highlighting some of those fun stories and how we can learn from that and keep moving forward.

Matt: Keep moving forwards. That's, that's a great title, and I'm sure someone's got that, actually, podcast. Keep moving forward. If they, if they haven't, if you're listening, listening, and you

Sadaf: should get

Matt: a podcast, you should totally get it. Ha ha ha ha ha

Sadaf: Yeah.

Matt: Keep moving forward. Absolutely. So where do we want to start then?

Sadaf: how about Matt, um, as we continue talking about podjunction as well, because we're going to be launching that in September

Matt: Yeah, yeah

Sadaf: maybe this is a good time then to look back at some of our podcasts that we've done.

Matt: hmm.

Sadaf: And so we've, we've got, I don't know, a hundred odd for e commerce. Podcast we've done 33, he said, I think last week for last week, [00:04:00] last episode.

Matt: See you're doing it already. It's well

Sadaf: doing it already. 10 minutes ago.

Matt: Yeah, ten minutes, don't, no, don't tell them that, the gigs up, yeah

Sadaf: Um, For push to be more, and then we've got about 10 episodes in the bag already, don't we, for podjunction. Yeah, so there's lots that, you know, that we've already got. So how have these episodes, these conversations that we've had, you've had, that have contributed to the growth of our network?

Matt: It's a great question, isn't it? Because last week In episode number one, uh, 10 minutes ago, um, we were talking about how. Uh, why Aurion Media exists, didn't we? So, and, and, and what we discovered, uh, that podcasting has, has this sort of secret. The obvious thing that people associate with podcasting is audience building.

So if I can get 10, 000 people to listen to my audience, you, you know, Joe Rogan's got the biggest podcast in the, on the world, and he's got a massive [00:05:00] audience, right? Um, so he goes and he gets the show sponsors, and he, you know, in the UK we've got the diary of the CEO, um, Steve Bartlett, again. Has guests on the show, he's got a massive audience, he gets like millions of listeners to each show, he's got great episodes.

Doing super well with it, you know, but these are the outliers, aren't they? Um, Tippi, do you know what the average listenership to a podcast is? Do you know what this is? I was shocked. Uh, it's like if you can get more than a hundred listeners to your show on a regular basis, you are doing well.

Sadaf: Oh, really?

Matt: Yeah, it's not a lot, actually.

Um, and so, but to build large audiences like that, I mean, for EP, we've got thousands of people that listen to the show. And we've been doing that consistently for about four years. It takes a while. Um, and to grow audiences that size is complex. Uh, and it's involved. It's not a bad strategy. You know, it's worked really well for us with EP.

To be fair, when we started EP, we had no idea what we were doing

Sadaf: No, [00:06:00] we did

Matt: I might have mentioned that before, but we blagged it. And we figured out, like, like most people, I thought if I do a podcast, we would eventually get an audience of people. A bit like if I start a blog, I might get 10 people this week, and I might get a thousand people next week if I do my SEO right, type of thing. Um, so now we, we've, we... We have audiences to our podcasts, but the thing, and that's a great strategy, you know, um, but it is complex. It's not straightforward. It's not the easiest channel to build large audiences in. Um, I think it's probably easier channels like YouTube is probably easier than podcasting, although YouTube have just launched YouTube podcasts, which is a whole nother story we can get into another day.

Um, I don't think that's a bad strategy, but for us, the secret power of podcasting. when I, when you stop focusing on the audience numbers per se, now the audience numbers are important. Don't get me wrong. They are important. But when I stopped focusing on [00:07:00] those as the primary measure of how successful our podcast is and started to focus more on the guest to the podcast.

So if I could invite onto the show. Like my ideal client or my ideal supplier or somebody that's an influencer in an industry that you know I'm connected to. Um, there are various different people that I can invite on the show and if I could go and get those people and connect with them and do it in a really meaningful way.

Sadaf: Mm-hmm.

Matt: That's, that was for me, that's the secret, that's the secret superpower of podcasting because that's for me what networking is all about. So if I go to a networking event, I get five or ten minutes with you, you give me your business card, I give you mine, I'll tell you what I do, you tell me what you do.

We share and elevate pictures. Neither of us are really interested in the other person because we just want you to buy our stuff and I don't particularly want to buy your stuff, right? And so they were okay in their day. So then we started doing like the, the breakfast, you know, the network [00:08:00] breakfast and you, and you get together with group people.

We have food and actually anything around food, always good, big fan of food, but it is a faff. Uh, so podcasting works really well because you invite people onto your show who, like I say, either ideal clients or either ideal guests or industry experts, or what, I mean, the very types of people that you come on your show.

And you just ask them great questions, um, and that sparks great conversation. And at the heart of everything is great conversation. Real meaningful connection, really interesting stories. We're going to talk about more about Andrew, a guy called Andrew Kelly. We'll talk more about him in another episode.

Sadaf: Mm-hmm.

Matt: and so you can do that relatively easy with a podcast. You can invite people on the show. And if I walked into your office and I said to you, you know, Uh, we had an hour, the stuff that we talk about on the podcast is not what we would talk about in your office. I'm in the office, I'm trying to, you know, you're on guard, I'm on [00:09:00] guard, we're trying to sort of suss each other out a little bit.

When you're on podcast, it's like all the barriers come down straight away. And so great conversation ensues. And so that for me is the foundation of a good network. Um, and you figure out. from those conversations, whether the person you're talking to is a good fit, do your values go in line? Do you think there's a chemistry?

Do you think you can work there? Um, and coupling great conversation. In that kind of environment, you're very quickly going to build a network, um, I mean, of meaningful connection. We keep using this phrase meaningful connections because that's what, you know, that's how I see it. These are meaningful connections.

There are these, like everyone that's been on the push podcast hasn't purchased products from us. Um, not, not at all. Um, but we've had people on the PUSH podcast who I've become friends, who we will do work for in the future. I have no doubt who we will work with, who I have used their services for us because we've met some great people.

Um, we're going [00:10:00] to talk about Jared Mitchell tomorrow, I've flown to his house, spent time with his family. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff, isn't there? Um, all kinds of stories that come out of this. That is the surprising superpower of podcasts is the ability to meet crazy, amazingly people, start meaningful conversations with them and just see where it takes you.

Sadaf: Yeah, I think you're really right. Like we get so caught up in numbers, don't we? I don't know if this is what social media has created or what but

Matt: I think it probably has, yeah.

Sadaf: yeah It's so much like, you know, it's so easy then to focus on the number that you have subscribers listening to your podcast But actually I think you're really right having that connection that human connection With your guest actually makes for a far better conversation, uh, for the listener as well.

So

Matt: Yeah, it does.

Sadaf: Yeah.

Matt: if you're, if you're super targeted on who you get to come on your podcasting, you personally invite them. Um, That means a quality of guest [00:11:00] is pretty good for the show. So then the audience comes and the numbers come, which I mean, it does come, the, the, the organic reach comes. You can use paid media to try and grow your podcast as well, or all the standard stuff, influence marketing, paid marketing, all that sort of stuff works.

But, um, but yeah, the organic works, uh, Two, because you've got great guests. And so if you've got a great, it's like anything, if it's a good product, if it's an interesting story or an interesting conversation, you're going to hit the subscribe button. If you hit that's like the repeat buy button, isn't it for podcasters?

Um,

Sadaf: right.

Matt: and so you can, you can do that really easily with a podcast. You can build the network and then over time you can build the audience. So it's not like you, you, you sacrificing one for the other. Um, But you can build that network. And here's the really cool thing about podcasting. Again, another secret superpower.

Um, that you'll probably end up talking about Podjunction. Because this is... Podjunction, just explain... We had talked about Podjunction in episode one. Let's not [00:12:00] assume everybody's listened to episode one of our Little August series. Um, explain what Podjunction is. In fact, hang on, let me do this. Um, explain what...

Sadaf: Podjunction is, uh, is our podcast that is going to be all about where, um, business and podcasting meet. So how we can use Uh, podcasting as a ways to grow our business, how we can market our business. And, um, yeah, I think in essence, that's what it is. Have I missed?

Matt: spilling the, no, it's totally, we're spilling the secret sauce, aren't we, in the podcast and helping people figure it out. And, um, yeah, that's what we're going to get into in

Sadaf: Mm hmm.

Matt: Podjunction. We're going to talk a lot about this, but one of the things I think you will talk about in Podjunction is the fact, if you are looking to grow as an expert, for example, in a specific niche, [00:13:00] um, And you're just starting out in that niche or you're quite new in that niche.

One of the things that you can do is, is go after people who have a large influence in that niche. So let's say you want to grow your Instagram following. And there are four or five Instagrammers in that industry, which have a reasonable following. Go and ask them to come on your podcast, have great conversations with them,

Sadaf: Mm hmm.

Matt: produce the assets, which.

We would recommend that you produce, um, the short form videos that crap and all that sort of stuff. All the stuff that you guys work on at Aurion Media, you know, make it all magical. And then give those to the person who is in that niche and they will share it out to their tribe, to their audience. And so actually you can use, um, other people's networks to grow your own network.

The majority of the time when people come on the push to be more podcast, because it's CEOs, business leaders, they tend to share and reshare the content on LinkedIn, [00:14:00] um, because they're proud of it. Um, and so whenever someone goes on and likes. It's, you know, the content or, um, they've shared that content.

I can engage in that conversation, um, but you kind of get access to their network and their tribe a little bit. I mean, not totally, not in a kind of spooky, freaky kind of way, um, but just in a genuine authentic way. And it's kind of cool, you know, that you can, that you can do that. So again, if you're looking to build that tribe or that following, if you're intentional about connecting with people of influence in that industry already.

That will build your influence, you'll piggyback their,

Sadaf: hmm.

Matt: their coattails a little bit. Does that make sense?

Sadaf: Yeah, it does. It does. Um, yeah, it's amazing, the, the well, how much we've grown and the positive influence that these, that these networks have had for us as our business, isn't it? Um, would Matt, what would you say has been a surprising aspect of this growth, this network growth for us? For you?

Matt: Surprising. [00:15:00] It's an interesting question because, um, like I said, if we look at numbers, if it's a pure numbers game, you might only have a few hundred listeners to your show, which is the average number of, you know, if you're a reasonably good show, you've got a few hundred people listening to it. So you might only have a few hundred people listening to the show.

But, out of those few hundred people, and if you have a great guest, You can reach thousands of people. That's, that's where the numbers for me get really surprising. So we put content out, we've had thousands of views just on a, you know, a 60 second snippet and you're kind of like, that's crazy, right? But that's a numbers thing.

That's a brand awareness thing. Does that really move the needle of the business? Yes. I mean, you could argue either way, very hard to measure. Um, so I'm not surprised too much by. I suppose I'm surprised a little bit how a small podcast can actually have a big reach. That's one of the interesting things for me.

Um, when you do it right, you can actually have a big reach and a big impact. Um, and I love that. That's, that's always kind of fun. [00:16:00] Um. I suppose there's a couple of things which have surprised me. One, when we did e commerce, well, we still do e commerce podcast. The e commerce podcast is kind of four years old, so it's a lot further on than push.

Slightly different strategy, uh, to that podcast, um, different reasons for doing it, but, um, really intrigued by what's come out of that. And again, the networks that I've made, the relationships, the friendships that I've made, um, What surprised me in that was after season two, do you remember this after season?

Cause of season two, we were like, who the heck do we get on as a guest? And we were hustling to try and get guests on the show. We'd not figured it out really. And so we were like, who do we get on? Um, and then after season two, we never had to go and find another guest, did we? Because

Sadaf: right.

Matt: We just got inundated with people that wanted to come on the, on the podcast.

And that's now starting to happen with push. I mean, the 70 guests that we've got lined up, we went and got, we targeted them. Right. Um, but the. There's a bunch of people wanting to come on the show. I have no idea who [00:17:00] they are. They're sort of, they're wanting to connect in with us now. Um, that's always nice.

You know, when, when you're... And it doesn't take much for all of a sudden for people to go, This guy's out there, he's consistent. And consistency always trumps... audience size in the podcasting world. If you're doing something regular,

Sadaf: Yeah.

Matt: you put in stuff out there, then people will get in touch and they'll say, listen, can I come on your show?

And you can say yes or no. You know, we don't always say yes to people. In fact, you're, you're quite harsh, aren't you? You, uh, you like to vet people quite.

Sadaf: But you know what? Some of our listeners actually also applied to come and be our guests as so Yeah. So yeah, keep on submitting those applications. We like that.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah, totally. We do. It's amazing. Really. In fact, on the, on the odd occasion we've said on EP, haven't we? Listen, if you want to come on the podcast, this is how you do it. Um, and uh, people do get in touch and want to share their stories, which is really, it's really nice.

I think the thing that I've loved about things like EP is just the amount of knowledge that I've gained, you [00:18:00] know, cause you get to learn from some really incredible expert. Same on push actually, and that's more leadership business type stuff. You get to learn that and hear people's stories, which is great.

There was one guy we had on EP. I can't remember if I went on to his podcast because he was a podcaster as well, a guy called Rich Brooks. I genuinely can't remember if I went on to his podcast first and then he came onto mine or he came, or if it was

Sadaf: were on his first.

Matt: I was on his first.

Sadaf: Yeah.

Matt: So I got invited to go on his podcast because I've been doing this podcast a while.

I'm starting to get known a little bit and you know, people then say, can you come on to the podcast? Yeah, sure, I'll come to your podcast. Why not? Um, so I went on to Richard's podcast, uh, which is called uh, Agents of Change by Flight Media. and um, got on really well. Rich is a great guy. It's like a brother from another mother.

You just hit it off, don't you, uh, instantly with people. Um, and so I'm like, rich, you need to come on my podcast. 'cause you know, he, he's big in the agency space and, you know, [00:19:00] understands paid media really, really well. You know, if you're looking for a Google Ads agency, check out, you know, the guys at Flight Media, they're great guys.

And, um, he comes onto my podcast. We have this, another great conversation. And I said to him, Richard, I'm doing push to be more. We're talking about leadership. It's a very different field. You want to come in? He's like, Oh yeah, come on, let's go on it. So he's come on to push. In fact, he's one of the guests that is not only been on EP, he's not only been on push, but is also going to be on pod junction, uh, because I'm remembering to do it now.

Uh, he's coming on to, to pod junction because. He is using his podcast to deliberately grow his business. He's got some fascinating stories about, you know, stuff that he's figured out along the way. So I'm looking forward to his interviews for those. Um, uh, you know, it's going to, I mean, I know the interview is great cause we've already done it.

So I'm not going to lie. He's just a great guy, Rich. But one of the fascinating things, so Rich and I have gone back and forth on podcasts and we've now got to know each other a little bit better over the few [00:20:00] years. Great guy. A lot of respect for him. Out of the blue, this guy contacts me a couple of weeks ago and says, I'm, I'm looking for, um, no, it's Rich actually.

Rich emailed me and said, Matt, I've got this client who's, um, who's got a ranch. He's looking to grow his online business. Um, he wants an e commerce coaching consultant, totally recommending you. So just be aware that this guy's going to give you a call. Which was fantastic. So this guy then, uh, connects with me.

Great guy, really interesting story, you know, working with him on, on trying to help him, um, grow his ranch business. Don't get me wrong, it's not big business for me, uh, cause it's not a big fat consultancy fee. It's a small little ranch, you know, it's just doing some great stuff, uh, in the States. And so, yeah, we'll get some work out of it, and I'd get a lot of enjoyment out of it, and it's great, it's just more people to connect with.

But that all came about because... Of, of a podcast, just a conversation with, I've never met him, never met him in person. I've never met any of [00:21:00] his family, but we just hit it off. You know, I had a few conversations, um, in a podcast environment, because it's a podcast, you can ask maybe more complicated or deeper questions and you would normally ask than if I was down the pub.

Like on push I, one of the questions I always say to people on push is, so, Let's talk about some big challenges you've faced in life and how you've overcome them. Imagine doing that down the pub, right? You just meet somebody, 10 minutes later, you're sat down there. Uh, hi, my name's Matt. Hi, my name's Rich.

Hi, Rich. How you doing? Yeah, I'm good. I'm from the States. So, you know, I've got an agency. What do you do? I kind of, Aurion Media. Awesome. That's great. Yeah. Rich, listen, tell me about some of the biggest challenges you've had in your life. It's going to go, what are you? Some kind of nutter. And so, but in a podcast environment, that's totally fine.

And so you bypass all of the small talk and you go straight into the meat and potatoes. Um, as we like to say in England. Uh, and so, it was just really interesting how that, that one conversation with [00:22:00] Rich on a podcast, he's now recommending me, uh, on consulting projects, which is fantastic. And I, obviously I need to deliver.

I need to do a good job. Otherwise he'll stop recommending me. Um, but yeah, love that. Love his story and do check it out on. Podjunction because it's we need to somehow incorporate this in the theme tune for Podjunction I'm not quite sure how the heck we're gonna do that. But hey No, I'll just give it to Josh because he does all our podcast themes and go just give him this recording Podjunction and you'll find it somewhere in there.

Um So yeah, do check it out on Podjunction. We've got rich. We've got did you say 10 episodes? We've got some episode 10 episodes coming

Sadaf: yeah. We've got 10 episodes ready.

Matt: Yeah, with rich with all kinds of amazing people. Uh, I really love those interviews. They were so cool I learned you would not believe him and I've been doing this for a while I've been doing this 11 years, but I learned so much just from having these conversations That's I suppose one of the things we [00:23:00] never really talk about podcasting is when you meet amazing people You can always learn stuff from them, right?

And so just as a personal development learning tool, it's much more interesting than reading a book. Not that there's anything wrong with reading a book Uh, but it's just always much more interesting to go and get the author of the book and ask them questions.

Sadaf: yes.

Matt: Which is what we did with, um, who did we have on recently?

Um, Todd Saylor. He came on the podcast. I don't think that episode's live yet, is it?

Sadaf: That hasn't been aired yet, no.

Matt: no, it's going to be aired probably sometime in the next month or so, but I don't actually know when it's getting aired. Um, but I recorded this episode with Todd Saylor who, he came on the pod, he was a guy who requested to come on our show.

That's right, isn't it? We didn't, we didn't have, yeah, yeah, so he requested to come on our show. Uh, Guy's an absolute lunatic, but a total legend. He is just so full of energy and joy for living, you know. And, um, he, he's one of these guests that comes on the show, and before he comes on the show, he, like, sends you his books, and he sent us T shirts,

Sadaf: Yeah.

Matt: pens, and all [00:24:00] kinds of swag, didn't he?

We got this swag bag in the office of

Sadaf: Yeah,

Matt: And my daughter took the T shirt, because she just likes large baggy T shirts. Um, and I've got his book, which, uh, I read through and we could just talk about his, I read, I skim read two thirds of his book and that just meant we could have a great conversation on the podcast, which was much better than just reading the book.

I'm not going to lie, it's fairly cool. Um, we've got Neil Hoyt coming on, um, soon, haven't we? He's coming on EP though, is that right? Yeah, he's coming on EP, the Google guy.

Sadaf: Yes,

Matt: Again, also a guy from Google written a whole book. Um, he was at a show that we went to. Um, met him, gonna get to know him some more, which I'm excited about.

So this is, yeah, it's just, it's just much better to get in the office, just much better. Anyway, anything, should we call it a day? Because we've been talking for 25 minutes, according to my timer, and now we're trying to keep these episodes shorter.

Sadaf: To ten minutes. Yeah, let's, uh, let's call it.

Matt: Let's call it, well, listen, thank you, let me play the... Let me play the theme tune, actually, because I need [00:25:00] to be on this a little bit more. So, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, thanks for joining me. Thanks for joining Sadaf. Make sure you like and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts from, because we're going to carry on our August conversations.

Hopefully you're enjoying them. Hopefully you're learning a lot. And in case no one's told you yet today, you are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you've got to bear. Sadaf's got to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it too. I'll see you next week. Bye for now.

Sadaf: Bye!