Discovering The Leader In You | Erin Meads

Erin Meads: If you're in a leadership position in, any organization and often, we will all, all of us have, we have self-limiting beliefs. So if maybe something, could be, I'm not good at, I don't feel good enough or But if, how, if you're not aware of it, that self-awareness, then that projects into how you might then support and lead your team.

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Matt Edmundson: Welcome to Push to Be More with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. This is a show that talks about the stuff that makes life work and to help us do just that. I am chatting with the beautiful, the talented, uh, Erin Meads, uh, all the way from the other side of the planet. She is in sunny New Zealand right now.

Uh, and we're gonna talk about what she do, uh, what she does to push through, uh, how she recharges her batteries, uh, and where she sees growth and being more. Now, the show notes and transcript from our conversation, uh, will be available on our website. Push to be more.com. Also, on our website, you can sign up for our newsletter and each week we will email you the links along with the notes from the show.

Auto automagically direct your inbox and it's totally free. So make sure you sign up for that. Now this episode is brought to you by the incredible Aurion Media, which helps entrepreneurs and business leaders like you, like me, set up and run their own successful podcast. Erin, you know what I have found running my own podcast to be really.

Really rewarding. It opens doors to amazing people. Like nothing I have ever seen. I've built networks, made friends, and had a platform to champion my customers, my team, and my suppliers and my friends actually, which is always nice. Uh, I think just about any entrepreneur and business leader should have a podcast because it's had such a huge impact on my own business.

I am a fanboy of that. There is no doubt. Now, of course, this sounds great in theory, but in reality there is the whole problem of setup, distribution, getting the tech right, knowing what the right podcast strategy is, who you get on the show. I mean, the list goes on. You see, I love talking. I know sounds, you know, like really.

Uh, but I do, I love to talk, uh, but I don't really enjoy all the other stuff if I'm honest with you. So aurion media takes that all off my plate. I get to do what I'm good at, and they brilliantly take care of the rest. So if you are wondering if podcasting is a good marketing strategy for your business, do connect with them at aurionmedia.com.

That's A U R I O N media dot com. Uh, there's a lot more information there. We will of course link to them on our podcast website as well. And they'll also be a link to Aurion Media in the show notes which no doubt you have now signed up to by email Because you know, why would you not? Okay, let's crack on. Let me tell you about this week's amazing guest.

Erin has spent over 20 years working in healthcare, spending her first few years working as a registered nurse, traveling across New Zealand and Australia. The itch to make a greater impact for people's experiences in healthcare led her down the path of working in leadership roles from her mid twenties, which was humbling, challenging, and of course rewarding.

As we all know. Now, in recent years, after a few surprising life events, sorry, I don't mean to laugh. I know what she's talking about.. Erin has been on a journey to really understand who she is, and this has enabled her to further expand her skills and lean into her superpowers for how she best leads and supports teams and individuals in their workplaces.

Erin thrives on supporting organizations, individuals, and teams through change and creating opportunities where others may see obstacles. Having years of experience leading and working across multiple organizations in healthcare, Erin has had to navigate many glass walls, which I think is the understatement of the year, uh, to continue her pursuit of achieving impactful results that focus on the cure and not the bandaid.

Erin, is, is also, if that's not enough, uh, a wife, a mom to a very special little boy and also a stepmom. Uh, she loves coffee, uh, Pilates, and is hugely passionate about all things sunscreens. And, uh, your, is that sunscreen or coffee? You are flashing across the screen there. It's coffee. Coffee. It's the thing.

It's the thing. It is. Welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here.

Erin Meads: Thank you for having me.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, no problem.

Erin Meads: Thank you for having me. I like, I like the word automagically.

Matt Edmundson: Automagically. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's a great word. I wish I could claim, uh, that I invented that word, but I think I read it somewhere, uh, on somebody's website.

Thought that's a, that's a very clever word. Yeah. Yeah.

Erin Meads: It would be nice if you could just kind of say that, you know, I don't know. Board meeting. It just, just automatically, that's how I'm gonna do it.

maybe that's what I should call my next company. Uh, automagically. ,

Matt Edmundson: yes, I'm sure. Actually, I dunno.

Well, yeah, I'm sure somebody's registered automagically.com. Uh, so I, I'll check it out later, see if it's still there. You're gonna have to check it out. Yeah. . And if it isn't, I'll register it and then just put a photo of me on there smiling. I used to do this thing. It's not there anymore. I do, I do wanna point this out, but I used to have this, uh, this, uh, long going debate with a very, very good friend of mine.

Uh, called Dave, and Dave and I would, whenever we'd see each other, would argue, who was God's favorite, right? And I would say to Dave, no, I'm God's favorite. And he'd go, no, no, I'm God's favorite. And it was just this long running joke. And then if anything good happened in life, I'd just say See cuz I'm God's favorite and not you.

And it was just one of those things that just went on for years and it got, it got a bit ridiculous at one point. Um, I went and bought the domain name godsfavorite.com, and I, I put a, I just put a simple website on that domain. And all it all, it didn't have any words, it just had one picture of me. So when you went to godsfavorite.com, there's this photo of me, it's not there anymore.

I do wanna point that out. And so one day I was having a conversation with Dave and I said to him, I said, Dave, honestly, I think you should Google it. Who is God's favorite? And so he Googled it, and of course, God's favorite comes up as the top ranking. And I said, whoa, let's click on the website and see what happens.

And then all he saw was this picture of me on the website. I was like, I win cuz you know, Google says I am God's favorite. So, uh, I dunno why I went off on that rabbithole. Oh, automagically.com? Yeah. That's automagically.com. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. . So now, uh, it's evening for me, it's morning for you. If you're watching this on video, there's very much a dark vibe and a light vibe going on on the two sides of the screen.

So you're in New Zealand? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're in New Zealand, right? Yes. Are you born and Bred Kiwi?

Erin Meads: Born and bred Kiwi. Yes. I, um, yes, grew up in a beautiful part of New Zealand. Mm-hmm. , so bay of plenty, small coastal town where the beach was, my backyard. So very, very lucky.

Matt Edmundson: Oh wow. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Jealous already. I'm not gonna lie. .

Yeah. Yeah. So did a bit of traveling. Um, but yeah, have always come, come back to NZ now living in, uh, Auckland, which is very rare, well, the largest city, but it's pretty small to the rest of the world. It's so, uh, you know, running our population is, is not huge in nz, but yeah. So living up in Auckland, um, at the moment where we work and play.

Yeah, yeah, no, fantastic. Fantastic. And so when you grow up in New Zealand where the beach was, your back garden, yeah. What was that like? I mean, was it, was it as idyllic as it sounds?

Erin Meads: You know, I think it, it was, it really was. You know, I think it's, I think things have changed a lot now though. Um, you go home and it's not, not quite the same with the backyard and you know, there's all these things called health and safety that schools and the things that you used to be able to do and go and, you know, crawl into drain pipes and things.

You even the tramps isn't it these days, you know, it's, um, all of those things, but. , you know, I think it, I think it created a really good grounding, um, in terms of, yeah, the, the people that I was around, it wasn't, you know, or everyone has their own little obstacles and as they navigate the world growing up as we, we all do.

But, um, I went to a, I went to school in another part of New Zealand, um, and so experienced boarding school. Oh, wow. So, yeah, so that was a very interesting journey. But it, you know, they all, um, create layers of, I think different types of resilience and, um, yeah, I think shape you to, to sort of then how you present yourself in the world as you grow up.

Matt Edmundson: You, you grow up in, in this beautiful place in, in New Zealand and you, you go through these different schools and you, and, and, and quite rightly you have said things are very different now. And they are. And we all look back to our childhood, childhood and go, man, we, we wouldn't get away with half the things that we did when we were kids.

Now you just wouldn't. Right. And so I know as a parent, uh, to when my kids, my kids are a little bit older than, than your, your youngster, uh, a lot older than your youngster. And, and I remember, I remember sort of looking at them as they were growing up thinking, oh, when I was a kid, I'll do this. And I'm kind of a little bit disappointed they can't do that anymore.

So is there's something from your childhood that you kind of, you kind of regret that maybe your, uh, young boy can't do?

Erin Meads: I think it's the, I think kids grow up now with less feelings of freedom. Mm-hmm. . And when I mean freedom, I mean that, that real childlike innocence that you, you know, you can kind of, you go and walk down the street and no one's kind of worried about

This sounds really terrible. I had parents that cared. But, you know, you would, you would, as a child, I remember there was these fences that, you know, we all went along the, the, the neighbors kind of properties. Cause we lived right next to the beach, literally. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so there were these fences that just went for, you know, multiple houses down.

So you'd walk on these fences, wooden nails, poking out of half of them, but you'd spend your afternoon, you know, wandering, uh, yeah. And playing. And, and I think that isn't quite so easy unless you are living in quite a, you know, small bespoke community or very rurally. Um, would you let your four or five year old do that?

And so I think that, Feeling of, you know, I, I'm really mindful around, um, trying to create an environment where it's not kind of fear-based because, you know, otherwise that then has a, I think a huge impact of then how people sort of grow up and, and lead, lead in their adult life. So yeah, that, that just, that pure innocence, you know?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? And, and you're totally right. I mean, I, the same way I, I would roam the fields for hours. You know, you'd go in the mor you'd leave the house in the morning and come back for food at lunch and then clear off again until dinnertime. Pretty much. Yeah. We didn't have mobile phones, you know, it was just, we got back when we got back as, as long as it was sort of roughly the right time.

I don't think I even had a watch at that point. Do you know what I mean? It was just whenever we thought the sun was in a certain place in the sky, uh, and it was, and we would just get lost in the fields. You know, we had a lot of fields around where I grew up, farmer's, fields, woods, and stuff like that.

And it was just, It was wonderful. But you, you're right. Yeah. I, that was one of the things that our kids didn't have.

Erin Meads: No. And I don't know whether, I mean, it'll be interesting. I think there's some obviously very extremely creative young people coming through. Mm-hmm. But I don't know, sort of, you know, you touched on the technology part and that's something I'm gonna have to navigate.

I've navigated it with two stepdaughters, but it's already changing, you know? And so it's how you kind of navigate that line of wanting to sort of create an environment where that's not the bend and end or, but also they're making sure they've got the skillset that they're gonna need actually in the adult world, where, you know, in the digital age, where you, you really do, yeah, you need to know how to do stuff.

Um, otherwise you've found like Googling away. So it's all, all of those sort of complexities I think that we didn't have. But, um, I read something actually, . I was watching something the other day and there was a, I think there was a parent that was asking about that, you know, I don't know who it was.

Anyway, it's obviously someone in technology mm-hmm. , um, who, and she said, how do I protect my, my teenage daughter? I think it was from the, you know, what's going on in social media kind of world? And they were like, well, you can do, you know, you can have all these, you know, protective mechanisms and you can be, you know, near them when they're on the phone all the time and all these things.

But actually that's really not going to, that's the bandaid, right? Yeah. At the end of the day, it's, that's not gonna do much. But, um, or you need to create and instill, you know, the confidence and the self-belief mm-hmm. and within your daughter, and that's what's gonna help see them through. Yeah. So, which I thought, yeah, that's quite telling.

Which we all need to do more of. Yeah. And as adults say, I'm a great believer that there's a lot more in that space that we need to, um, we need to be looking at.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I have a daughter, she's, uh, going up to 16 and I'm aware that on social media she sees, and, you know, between social media and TV and all that sort of stuff, she sees what one, I think it's two to 3000 images a day of what people think women should be and do and act and behave.

Yeah. And, um, . I can't stop that. I mean, I suppose I could, I could not have the internet in the house. She'll find a way because that's what kids do. That's right. And, and, and you're right. It's not, it's not stopping that it's, my mum didn't come with me down the fields when I was a kid. Do, you know what I mean?

She just taught me how to, how to handle whatever I was gonna come across. And I think, I think you're right. I think there's like, how do you teach your, your daughter to be resilient with social media, for example, I think is probably one of the topics of the day. Mm-hmm. And even your son, you know, I I, I don't think it's peculiar to, to girls at all.

I think it's, um, no, a hundred percent not, it's both, it's both sides of the table now, isn't it? And so you've got to, um, you've gotta build that resilience in them. Uh, and

Erin Meads: definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And what's, and what's real and what's not, and all those sort of things. And I think there's some really good, you know, I think that's starting to get exposed a lot more now, um, particularly around filtering and all the, you know, effects that happens.

But I think even just. , you know, that that repeated exposure to, you know, this is somebody's snapshot and it's usually the highlights, um mm-hmm. . And so, you know, how do you support 'em in that way that you know, that this is the reality of, you know, real life and that's ups and downs and, and all the, you know, things in between.

And also just connecting on a different level. So yeah, you know, digital's great, but actually how, you know, do you engage face-to-face or how do you engage and have a real conversation with people or, you know, go into the shop and all those things. Makes you sound really old.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

I'm, how old am I right now? Um, . Yeah, it's true. It's an interesting one, isn't it? And actually, I mean, you're in the healthcare sector, right? And actually this is becoming a healthcare issue, uh, amongst teens is the, the mental illness that comes out of this social media nightmare in some respects that we're, we're in the midst of.

Erin Meads: Yeah. And also as well, just I guess what, how people wanna engage in healthcare now and what that looks like. And that's changed, I mean, over, particularly over the last couple of years. You know, it is, it's had to change, um, rapidly. And I think posi, that's, that's been a positive thing. But, you know, we have to now navigate what that looks like in terms of making sure people have the right access and um, you know, how do they wanna engage and what does that look like?

And that's not necessarily always, you know, in a clinic and in person. And so I think there's some really positive things that are coming out of it. Yeah, yeah. Technology. But yeah, you've got master all that and it's all the fun stuff.

Matt Edmundson: It's all, and this is what we get excited about, isn't it? Uh, this is all the, all the interesting stuff.

So, so the show's called say again?

Erin Meads: It creates the what if. And I think that's, that's always the, it can create fear in a lot of people, but I think if you've got a mind of thinking, yeah, but I'm quite a why person and so, um, , which my people that know me well will understand that, and I'm that, but that's kind of how I've led always, you know, I'm very curious.

And so, although it can be uber frustrating at times, and so I always tell my team like I'm a why person and it's not because I just, I'm being nosy or I don't trust you. Um, but you know, I think as you continue down that why path, you start to really, that's where the good stuff, you know, that you can actually really influence lies.

And quite often we focus on the bandaid, the easy stuff, or it's not, we'll just layer this on, but you just end up with piles of stuff. Um, dunno where, where we started there, but I'm ask why ?

Matt Edmundson: No, no. So you're, it's interesting. So I, it's interesting you've called yourself a, a why person as in, you know, you ask why a lot, almost like a kid does.

Just why, why, why, why, why? Yeah. So when did you, I'm, I'm always intrigued when I, I speak to people and they have these sort of statements which says I'm a why person. Um, is that something that you've always known? Was there a point where you kind of went, no, this is kind of how I'm wired. Was there sort of this point of revelation, the Damascus road experience, if you like?

Erin Meads: I, um, it's really interesting cause the la you know, obviously the last couple of years I have really started to understand the importance. I think particularly, no actually it's for everyone. And I think I was thinking about it the other night. We need to do way more in this space. And I think it could, there's a lot of opportunity but.

really starting to understand how you show up mm-hmm. and where your strengths are, where they might come from as well. And, and I think also, you know, being able to lean into that, but also knowing your blind spots and being really super aware of the internal stuff of, of why that might show up as well.

Um, so no, I was kind of always that kid at school, you know, even on the reports and I was used to drive the teachers mad cause like she just, she sort like, but why does two plus two equal let's, I was talking to my best friend the other day who've been friends for years. And she was like, you are always, you know, that kid that like, but why does two plus two equal four I don't I need to know.

Um, and so I, I think, and, but I, I think then it kind of dampened down for a while. Mm-hmm. , I think for a lot of reasons, but really starting to come back actually it's a real strength. Um, because. it does enable you to, yeah. Start to really try and find and create solutions and opportunities that are always attempting to get to that sort of, that cure.

Mm-hmm. of the bandaid.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. So why, why do you think it's, why do you think it's important that we learn how we show up to use your, your terminology? What, what led you to over the last few years, to, to, to realize that this was an important, and I, I agree with you by the way. I'm not being, uh, disagreeing.

Yeah, no, I'm just really curious. What's led you to that, that conclusion? What happened?

Erin Meads: Yeah, so I think, you know, I think when you are, you're young and you're, you're, but I'm still young, but um, You know, maybe that sense of naivety and you know, you've got a goal and that's where you want to head. And so I had quickly kind of discovered actually I can really, I can control what, how I show up to work every day as a nurse.

And I love this and I love my patients and I love the team, but I, you know, there's an itch and I want to do more. And I'm, interested in how do I create, a better experience, for a wider network of people that I, you know, that I work with. And so within that, that took me down a quickly into sort of quite senior leadership positions in healthcare.

And I, I landed myself in an organization where I think that was, it was, it was an interesting experience because it was, at that point I kind of, um, was exposed to maybe the way different organizations operate. And they're certainly not the same and. . You know, I think that's where you have to really start to know and go, how is this starting?

How is this reacting to my values? Mm-hmm. and how I show up and my integrity. And it was really starting to push on that, um, to the point where it's like, I don't know, I don't know if I want to, if this is what it is. Is this what leadership is? Mm-hmm. I, I dunno if I wanna be part of it. And, and it was a really interesting sort of crossroads because I, you know, we, we talk about the busyness and I think it's an area we don't talk a lot about though in terms of these kind of internal pools that some of us, you know, we've all, none.

It's not all as like social media. It's not always the highs. Yeah. But we don't talk a lot about the lows. And I think, that can be really tricky when you've got younger leaders trying to navigate, their way forward. Because they may not have necessarily seen the more tricky and complex parts.

So yeah, I kind of was at those crossroads and I went, you know, I, I could maybe just kind of leave. I could open the florist, I don't know. Um, or you know, what do I want to do? But I dunno if this is it, this is not how I want to lead. This isn't, this isn't me. Um, and so yeah, I removed myself from that situation and that was really, really challenging cuz that went against, um, you know, it's like this was what was expected and that was the role.

And, um, and so I quickly kind of went, maybe not, maybe not mm-hmm. , but you had to then really be, um, take a really good step inwards to be able to reflect and go, what's just happened, the situation, and how do I now learn and move forward with it? Um, mm-hmm. in a way better space. And so I can, you know, how do I better show up in the world?

So I think that was sort of the catalyst of really starting to explore, um, you know, how different leadership styles and different organizations and culture. Um, and it's something that gets banded around, you know, culture and employee experience, but there's, I think there's an ownership of how we, we show up, you know?

And if you're in a leadership position in, any organization and often. , we will all, all of us have, we have self-limiting beliefs. So if maybe something, could be, I'm not good at, I don't feel good enough or But if, how, if you're not aware of it, that self-awareness, then that projects into how you might then support and lead your team.

Yeah. And then on the other end of that, you've got team members who quite often, particularly in I think, industries like healthcare, where in lawyers, they're employed into a role, but actually there's human behind it. And although we need them to do the job, they've all got different strengths.

Yeah. And they've all got different ways of operating. And so quite often that, you know, problem child or the one who you know, isn't quite, you know, fitting the mould, it's like, how, how do we support them and how do we understand how we can best lead into their strengths or the way that they just see the world.

And it's also different . And so , the more we, I think we just have such, it's, it's just such an interesting area, um, that we can, we can do a lot more in. And I think that's gonna produce a lot better outcomes for businesses, for people. Yeah. Uh, it changes the conversation, right? Changes the conversation.

Matt Edmundson: So what sort of things, what sort of things did you do, um, or do you do with either the teams you did or with yourself to get that sort of self-awareness?

Because, um, my experiences, everyone talks about self-awareness and people think they know a little bit about themselves. Um, but actually, Yeah, do you really? Uh, and so it's, you take the sort of the quizzes and the tests and the, you know, and they come back, you know, the, my Myers Briggs or whatever, and people al are always surprised by the results.

Really? Am I really like, you're like, yes, you are really, like, so I'm kind of curious, Erin, what sort of things have you done yourself to sort of draw that out so you understand it clearly for yourself?

Erin Meads: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, right? Because I think when I, I've done a few, I think like one of my, I think it was H B D I or something, but, um, for me it was re it was actually really rewarding And because I looked at it and I was like, my God, that's, that's why I struggle in this space.

Like, that's why, cuz I've gotten like none of it, you know, like, I way you prefer to play in kind of this area of my strength and. As I started to sort of delve into different areas, and you can take what you kind of want from, from them as well. And I think it's not saying this is who you are, and it can change in a, you know, over time, but I think it, if you look at it with an open mind, you go, okay, what, how does this affect me?

And how does this impact me? And where are my strengths and what do I enjoy? If you are leading, you know, or turning up to work or you're trying to lead your team or without sort of being aware of that, I think that's where you, I always say, if you're not in alignment, then that's where that real tension can sit internally.

It just doesn't feel like you're in flow. Um, and so with our, like we had one, we had, I had a team and we had gone through it. Um, and we'd, we'd gone through one of them and so we talked about it, but as a leader, I. We kept talking about it. It wasn't the thing that you did once in a nice, good session and everyone talked about it and then that was it.

And you never, it was like, how then do we navigate challenges, projects, team meetings, you know, how do we show up and support each other? And I would quite often, you know, go in and say, I'm really struggling with this. Mm-hmm. because I'm not in this space, but you've got a massive, can you please help me?

And so it's starting to have those conversations on a daily basis. Yeah. And I think the more that we can do that, then the more people also feel safe in order to, to sort of show up that way as well.

Matt Edmundson: So what was some of the surprising things and that you discovered about yourself in all of this?

Erin Meads: Uh, so, uh, look, you know, it was interesting actually. There was some, my, in my intuition is very strong and, um, . And I've always kind of thought that, but you know, I think it kind of showed that I really, really like to play in that why space. Mm-hmm. . And that's where it started to sort of connect. It was like my intuition.

I like the why. Um, but also there's not a lot, there wasn't a lot of green, like the, the sit down. This is why I, my inbox looks terrible. , I'm the person that no matter how I start, it always ends up just being a bit of a mess. Mm-hmm. . Um, but it's the way that it works for me and actually trying to have it beautiful with all the different tabs is, um, it's just never gonna work.

Right. Yeah. I, it's just not quite where I am. And I had, um, I had somebody else that I was actually supporting at the time who was in my team, and, um, the person who came in to facilitate it said, now she's the opposite. So when you go back and you look at her desk and you know you're gonna have all the files, and, and it was, I walked, I walked back in, it was a shared office.

And it was just chalk and cheese. So here was my office and my desk with papers everywhere at my inbox and mess. But very managed and hers was just the complete opposite. Everything color coordinated and filed. So my responsibility was how do I best support her? You know, that's, you know, and, and we talked about it and I think there's so many great things that come from conversation.

That's a very true, so many great things, , that come from conversation with an awareness. Mm-hmm. an awareness as well and, and owning it. Um, and saying, I'm not always gonna get it right, but then let's start to have this dialogue. Mm-hmm. . Um, and how can I best support you, particularly if there's areas that maybe aren't my strength and you might need support on.

Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm. Very good. Very good. So, I mean, it's, it's great. I think when you say, again,

Erin Meads: I'm passionate about, it's an area I'm very passionate about. Mm-hmm. , um, yeah, I don't know. I just always, I think what would organizations look like and what would, if we, if we delved into it a bit more, um, I, yeah, I think it's very rewarding.

Cause I think it can really change even, you know, you might have people I've worked, you know, obviously in healthcare, a lot of doctors, um, and, you know, some of them quite challenging. But often when you, if you have a self, if you have an awareness yourself as a leader mm-hmm. , I think you can start to look at it and go, actually, some of this is this, they're projecting stuff here that is actually a real internal struggle for them.

Mm-hmm. . So how do we best support them? Otherwise, this is just gonna end really badly for them and actually for the organization. Mm-hmm. Um, so I, I just, yeah, it's, it's a really, really rewarding aspect, I think.

Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm. No, it's, it's very true. I think know thyself isn't, it's a very, it's, it's a very easy thing to say.

It's a very difficult thing to do, uh, to, to really know yourself and to understand why you are the way you are and how you react and respond, you know, and it, and, and what, yeah. And what you should, uh, leave alone as a strength and what you should actually work on and change. Because there are things, believe it or not, I think people should probably change, uh, you know, and it, and it's understand, it's understanding, I suppose, where the, the boundaries and borders lie with all of those things.

Yeah. Because, and the goalposts are always moving, aren't they? So

Erin Meads: They are. And I think also, you know, like I, I was actually coaching someone, a nurse the other day. and, um, and so we are, we're going through cuz she just kind of wanted to work out where, what, what, what does her path look like? What are the options?

Anyway, so we, we were doing a session and it was really interesting cause we started having a conversation around, you know, it was like, where's this coming from? Like, where's the, like you've decided now this is, you know, you wanna make a plan to move forward, whereas, but what's the pull? Um, and so we worked through that and I, you know, we, we started to unravel, I guess that the, the actions that she was about to take were coming from a place of fear.

Mm-hmm. . So it was, I, I'm worried about this. So in order to try and avoid this, I'm going to do this action. You know, I'm gonna go and be, you know, I'm gonna go and study this masters. Yeah. Where it was actually, we were like, you know, so we worked through it was like, you know, lean into what you wanna move towards.

Mm-hmm. , um, versus trying to avoid. And I think even in companies, we do this a lot, we don't want that to happen. Mm-hmm. so we'll quickly do, you know, this action to try and avoid it. But actually what are we serve us, I think our company and our team a lot better if we can lead with what are the things we're wanting to move forward to positively.

Like, this is what we're wanting achieve, not, yeah, we're gonna do this because we're trying to avoid. Um, and it quickly changed the dialogue for her. So now she's going away and being busy doing, um, her homework in a way different area than where she started from. But, um, but you know, it, it gave that permission I think, to be, you know, for her to, to inquire a little bit more about herself as well.

And yeah, where do her strengths lie?

Matt Edmundson: That's a really powerful point. You know, what's driving it? And for that lady, it was fear, uh, and especially at the moment. You know, the great winter of discontent. Yeah. As they're calling it, aren't they? It's, it's, um, yeah. Crazy times in which we live. I worldwide recession, illegal war.

I mean, the whole year, you could list a whole bunch of things. It should not be happening right now. And I, I think that's causing people to make decisions, uh, based on fear. Uh, so how did you, how did, how do you, how did you help that nurse understand that that's where that decision was coming from and therefore maybe reframing it and looking at life through a different lens?

Erin Meads: Um, so, you know, I, I think, and no, I know this, it, it's a journey, right? It's a, so this started after, you know, A couple of life events along the way. One being, you know, their organization of mm-hmm. , why am I, why I felt so torturous, you know, in this company where, where I should've

Matt Edmundson: never a good feeling

Erin Meads: been thriving? And it's like, what? Why? You know? Um, and so you quickly, if you, you, you can start to, that can really dampen your confidence, what's wrong with me? Mm-hmm. what? You know, and so I think that took a, you know, a lot of reflection and, and starting to really look inwards around. And so self-development. Um, so I've done a lot of reading and, you know, I had a coach and, um, I had more than one coach.

And, you know, and starting to really navigate, I wanna be, you know, if I wanna thrive, you know, how do I then start creating actions that are gonna build to that? And then how can I use those to, to move forward and, and support others and, and lead others. So I think that coupled with when you maybe have.

uh, you know, I then had the, my son mm-hmm. . Um, and so that created a, a kind of a different reality mm-hmm. . And, and so you, you start to reflect on that and say, how, how do I now move forward? Again, I'm a different person. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, pre pre Harry or and post Harry and. And so I think through that and really starting to, as I said, um, understand the superpowers and leaning into it and going, okay, well th this is how I best show up.

Like, this is how I can support and, and utilize my skills and experience. Um, and I think the more that you can look inwards the more you can start to, project how you want to, show up in the world, but it's gotta start internally. . Mm. And firstly, there's gotta be a desire.

Yeah. It's gotta be a desire to, it's like being hungry and being curious and we can, I guess you can go through life, but it's not that fun. Right. Of either one feeling really just not in flow. Mm-hmm. And I know it sounds very like, you know, whimsy, but if you don't feel in flow, it's just things feel hard.

Mm-hmm. , um, or you take things on. Like, I, I was asked to do a piece of work a few weeks ago and I was like, I just, I Mm. You know, I could, but I dunno if that's, you know, so we actually talked about, I was like, this is, this is what I can, you know, this is how I can best support this piece of work. But I would need a team, um, you know, around that has these types of different, you know, attributes that I, I don't, and that's totally okay.

So I think, um, the more we can see that it's not singular, um, as well takes a team. . And, and in order to build that team effectively, you've kind of gotta know what are the blocks that you need Yeah. Within that team. So it comes back to

Matt Edmundson: No, I like that. I like that. So you are, it's you and you are Right. You know no mind. And bringing the experts. Well, yeah, that's true. You do. You go get the experts, you go get the, Hey, what was it? Andrew Carnegie said his epitaph he wanted to read here lies a man that knew how to employ people better than him or something like that. And it was, yeah, it's that kind of mentality, which says actually, uh, and actually one of the things as human beings is we, we know, I think intuitively what we're rubbish at, as, as you know, self-esteem is probably an all time low in a lot of ways.

Uh, and so yes, I, I'm, I'm rubbish at this. It's very hard, I think, for people. Um, to say, actually this is what I am really good at. These are my superpowers. Okay. Especially, and I, I, I, I think, I do think this is a, a, a, a sex thing as well. I think it's harder for women, especially because they've been downtrodden for so long.

You know, there's that whole, yep. And, and so I think the fact that you can sit here and you can say, these are my superpowers with a smile on your face, and a, and a confidence in your step is actually quite remarkable because I don't think many people can.

Erin Meads: Yeah. It's, it's a work in progress. And what's that whole saying? You fake it till you make it? No.. I think, I think it's, you know, it's interesting because, you know, this, I had another client and that was, that was the first thing, like I was coaching her and she said, um, she was like, oh no, but I don't have the, I don't have the confidence. Like I couldn't do that. I was like, you know, you, that whole thing around woman, I said to her, you know, women versus men, they've always, they've talked about job descriptions, you know, or adverts.

But yeah, they, a female will go, oh yeah, I can do that. Oh no, I can't do that. I won't apply, I won't apply for the role. Whereas a male is more inclined to go, ah, no, maybe I could do that. Yeah, of course I'll apply. And so I, I do think it's, um, it, it's, it's not an easy thing, but I think the more, if I think, well, how, how do I best add value?

And I wanna add value in how I can contribute to the world. It's not so, it's not about me, you know, it's, for me, it's always my why is greater. It's about, you know, supporting and helping others. But, um, so I think, I think you just, the more that you can sort of start to understand that, then you know how you can best contribute.

And I think the other thing as well is the interesting, we talk a lot around what are our strengths in terms of our, our technical ability. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's all the other stuff as well that I think really is where the magic happens.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's, um, and, and it's easy. It's easy, I think, or easier to say, uh, where, where your competence lies.

In other words, you can, it's easier to say, yeah, I am really good at using a word processor. I'm really good with Google sheets or I'm really good at, you know, teaching kids, uh, that are age five or six. Yeah. And that's the, that's the skill, that's the competency. Whereas it's, it's a little bit more difficult with the softer stuff to say, I'm really good at being empathetic, or I'm really good at, at, at, um, at, uh, you know, intuition or, or whatever it is.

Those, those softer things, which are actually much harder. Cause they were never graded at school. They were never actually celebrated at school. Right. So, no, uh, it becomes much harder to, to understand where your strengths in those softer skills lies. I mean, yes. I'm, this is what I'm picking up from you, Erin.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Erin Meads: No, I, it it is. And I think that's where you, you know, that if you do the work, and I think organizations as well, and that's what I'm saying, it's, you know, I, I was talking to somebody the other day, I was like, yeah, it's, you know, we've got 50 nurse, we had 50 nurses in this team. And I was like, yes, their technical ability is, is this, you know, and we need them to do this.

But actually, you know, a lot of them are struggling. Um, and for different reasons and at different times. And I think if we, we often in, in organizations as well, we, we focus on the leadership team or the management team, but actually how else can we contribute to this work, to the, to the front line workforce?

And I think enabling them to also know, it also puts the accountability as well back on the inside. This is a two way conversation now, um, around supporting you and then also then, you know, where are your blind spots so we can I the shift from a culture perspective. And I just think actually quality of life,

Mm-hmm. , you know, um, which doesn't start in the end from the nine to five. And so I think it creates a really different dialogue, um, within with, with, with people. Yeah. We all seems, right?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, totally. And, and dialogue apparent. It is what you said earlier, right? Conversations are important. Uh, just actually having the conversation are, this is very important.

Yes, it is. Uh, and a lot of people don't have them, uh, especially in the, in the culture in which we live at the moment. It's like, no, I'm not gonna, I don't wanna just, I don't wanna talk to someone who has things differently to me. I just want to ignore them or shout louder than them or cancel them. Uh, and it's, it's a really sad state of affairs, I think.

So, Erin, listen, you are working in healthcare. You are a, a mom to a fairly new child. You've, uh, you've gone on this, this sort of journey of, uh, enlightenment for want better expression without getting too zen. Uh, Do you know what I mean? It's, um, it, it, it, there's obviously a lot that's going on inside your head.

You're working hard. You are balancing all these duties, stepmom, mom, wife, business coach, leader, Erin Meads as a person, throw 'em all in the mix. How do you, how do you fill your tank? What, um, what do you do to, to do that or recharge your batteries is, you know, another way of asking the same question, isn't it? Yeah.

Erin Meads: Uh, well I'm, Pilates is my happy place.

So I think exercise, you know,

Matt Edmundson: Pilates and coffee,

Erin Meads: uh, pilates and coffee. Haven't quite worked out how you can drink coffee lying down and doing Pilates.

That would be nice. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's really important to create. You know, and I, self-care has not been high on the list and Absolutely. You know, previously, and I can see that it, the impact that it can have on mm-hmm. , just how you show up. Right. So I think it's really super important of understanding, you know?

Yeah. How do you recharge and Yeah. For me, definitely Pilates, it gives me like I'm, and I don't think it's the Pilates, it's the fact that I'm booking in time. That thing is for me mm-hmm. , and like, you're switching off, you're away from technology and mm-hmm. , um, you know, moving your body, which they know is good, good for us.

Mm-hmm. . So that is definitely one thing. Um, getting out in nature. Mm-hmm. , like, as we just talked about, I think, you know, we're spending a lot of time on screens and technology, so how do we, um, you know how so can me, it's getting out in nature as well. Yeah. And. and I, and I'm not a great switcher offer at night, so I've started to, I downloaded an app to try and kind of switch the brain off.

Mm-hmm. . So back to technology, isn't that 360? Um, to just to listen to different things, podcasts and, and actually for me, that's really relaxing. It's just, um, it's good for the brain, good for the soul. Um, and, and meditation, which all also sounds really zen but it's not. It's, um, like, I don't know. There's something about trying to still the mind.

Yeah. Which I'm not great at. Everyone talks about the monkey mind of lots of things, but work in progress.

Matt Edmundson: there's a great phrase, um, which is used, uh, in the vegan community an awful lot, which says pro uh, focus on progress, not perfection. Yeah. Uh, and that's what, that's what you're talking about, isn't it?

The sort of the work in progress. It's like, and this is where I'm at right now, you know, this is the sort of point in life..

Erin Meads: So, and I think also just trying to be more in the moment mm-hmm. as well. Like, it's so easy to get, you know, what, worried a hundred percent. We're all worried about different things for different reasons, um, for the future, definitely.

But, um, you know, and I think having a small person, keeps you kind of grounded. And so it's, yeah. How do you, it's seeing the world through their eyes is just fascinating. And I think you can learn a lot from just getting down to their level and exploring Yeah. and being in the moment.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's very true.

And, and bringing it back to technology. I think technology has a habit of robbing you from being in the moment. So you'll see a couple in the restaurant having a meal, both of them are on their phones, you know, Instagramming about the meal that they're eating. Or you'll be in front of a beautiful waterfall and you're so busy trying to find the perfect camera angle that you just forget just to stop and look Yeah.

And take it in. Right. And so that, that sort of doing life in the moment and being in the moment. I think is one of the great things that technology is sort of, robbed is probably the wrong phrase, but as we've allowed technology to take from us, uh, yeah, that would be maybe a way that I would put it. Yeah.

Um, so yeah. I, I, I like that. I like that. Um, where do you see, where do you see the next few years going for you? What do you wanna grow in and develop into?

Erin Meads: Well, I've definitely said next year I just went some of the downs. I, next year is definitely the year of discovery. Um, so there's, you know, I definitely want to continue down the path of being able to and what that looks like.

I, and I think that's the exciting thing about life is that you can build and create, and it doesn't quite work. You just do a bit of a 180, um, however, you know, continuing or actually starting to focus more into, uh, working with peoples and teams and organizations, um, around sort of this area with around strengths and culture and, you know, interactions and, and all the really fun, fun stuff.

Um, because I think that I just, yeah, there's just so many positive aspects of it. Mm-hmm. , so wanting to do it a lot more work in that space. Um, and that's really exciting. Yeah. So with that, you then, you know, grow your own skillset as well. And so definitely next year, um, have, you know, put myself on a few courses as well.

And I'm always a fan of learning and, um, , so, and I, you know, I don't know after that, who knows? I think it's, I think, yeah, there's, and there's a couple of other projects in the pipeline. Okay. Um, so. No, that's just, which is, which is exciting too. But I, I think, um, yeah, probably over the next five years is starting to, yeah, how that looks.

Um, I can't tell you much, but it will. Yeah, it's definitely adventure I'm looking forward to.

Matt Edmundson: It's really interesting, isn't it? Cuz you are, as I'm asking you the question, your eyes are going up and you know, to the corner and you are, think you're seeing things in your head and you're using phrases like, it's an adventure.

It's something that I'm looking forward to. It's exciting. And that's actually a bit at the same time you go, I dunno what it is. But that in itself is such a powerful blessing for want of a better expression. The actual, the ability to conceive and think about a future with hope and with excitement and with, with sort of like a passion and a momentum, if you like, I think is quite, is quite lovely.

So it's quite nice to hear you. I don't need all the answers, but it's quite nice to hear you talk about it in, in, in those sort of, and with that framework, if you like.

Erin Meads: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think otherwise, you know, you can, oh look, I, and, and I think that's where I've become more particular around some of the work that I've taken on in terms of, you know, cause I am sitting in a, in a consulting space, so that gives me flexibility to, um, you know, I'm working with multiple people and organizations.

And so I think it's starting to be, you know, really particular around going, well actually if, if I take this on, then that doesn't create space for this mm-hmm. . Um, and so, you know how, and, and I'm, you know, really upfront with people now if they do ask a piece of work, I just had a client and so I put some of the strengths on like, about me.

Like, this is what you, you know, this is what you get. Um, and so it creates that dialogue. But yeah. . It's, it's a very, I'm, I'm also super aware that it's a privileged position to kind of be in mm-hmm. . And so, um, you know, treating that with the, the TLC and the care that it should, because yeah, I know that there's, you know, for others it's, it's not quite so, Easy. So,

Matt Edmundson: well, what we'll do, Erin, is we'll get you back onto the podcast in a few years time and find out what's going on. Exactly. That's really interesting, the conversation . So it has now got to the time of the podcast, which I know you have been looking forward to. This is the, uh, question box time dun dun dun.

So if you are, uh, listening to the podcast rather than watching it, I've just held up a box of, uh, questions, uh, to the screen. And this is where I take out the cards with the questions on, uh, and I, I sort of ruffle through them and at some point Erin will say to me, stop. Uh, and wherever we stop, that's gonna be the question that comes next.

I dunno what it'll be. I've not read through all of these questions. I've only read some of them. I do take out the inappropriate questions, , uh, uh, but we will go through the questions, uh, and we will say, stop 'em. That will be the next question. So Erin, over to you. Oh, stop. Oh, getting quite close to the end there.

So, um, I'm nervous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uh, it's one of those, isn't it? So are you ready for your question?

Erin Meads: Oh, okay.

Matt Edmundson: Okay. Um, let me show you the question as I read it out. Can incompatibility ever be a strength in a relationship? That's actually quite a good question for you. I think it's

Erin Meads: Mm, yes. I'm gonna say yes.

Okay. Why? It can be, the reason for that is because I think, well, it de it depends . So I think there can be areas of incompatibility. So if it's completely just not working, then maybe no. But I think, um, yes, because one, you need a bit of yin and yang. So if you think it's kind of, ah, I don't know, it's a, it could be an interest or.

Just the way that maybe somebody does something and it's different to you, then yeah, that creates a little bit of tension. But it can be also a positive thing of, um, it's boring otherwise if you, if you the same completely. But I think also it can, it can ch like challenge you in different ways and make again mm-hmm.

how do you react and respond to that situation where it might not be incompatible, it's just actually it's a different person. We're all unique and so they're saying they're gonna have their own stuff and then that's the reason why they show up or that's something that interests them. So how can you respond to the situation differently?

Mm-hmm. . So I think it creates an opportunity to, um, to appreciate differences.

Matt Edmundson: And it sounds very good, Erin, what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think it's, it's one of those things that is a lot easier said than done because, well, I'm hundred percent, it's, it's one of those where actually to understand where we're incompatible usually means we have a very strong difference of opinion.

Right. Or a different strength of idea. So for me to still be okay with that, uh, despite my strong belief otherwise, can actually make me very, very insecure. Uh, and Do you know what I mean? It becomes quite problematic, doesn't it? And so, uh, I, I hear what you're saying, but on the other hand, I'm like, I wonder if this is the main reason, which is cited for divorce, for example.

We were just incompatible. Uh, and you're kind of like, yeah,

Erin Meads: yeah. Maybe. Yeah. And I think it depends what it is, right? And you, and I think that's the difference between this is it's values based and like, and knowing your values and just knowing that that's just not something that you, you know, will leave a stray.

And so that's okay cuz that's holding your own boundaries and your own values. Mm-hmm. But I think, um, there's lots of things that can be, you know, differences of opinion where it's not re it's not quite values based mm-hmm. , but it also could be how we just show up in the world as well. And so, knowing our blind spots, knowing their blind spots, and is it, is it really incompatible?

I guess that's, that's where I always challenge it that too, but it totally depends on the context.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, it does. It's not, it's not actually a very straightforward question to answer. I think it's a really interesting question to ponder because I, I, I have been married coming up to 25 years now. Um, and.

I love being married. My wife's amazing, and she's had to put up with a lot living with me. I'm not gonna lie. She's, she's an incredible lady. Um, and you, you come and people say to you, why you've been married 25 years. You run your own business. You, how, how do you do that? And you're like, well, it's hard work, isn't it?

You, you have to, you have to lay aside certain, certain rights that you feel like you should probably have, um, and actually recognize that actually there are strengths and weaknesses you all bring to this relationship. , is that incompatibility? I don't know. It's just that sort of recognizing that actually we don't gel on everything and we're okay with that.

And we sort of, we work, we work life around that. Um, it's, it's, but, I feel like we could go on and on about this question all night. It's a very good question. We could, uh, box of question box. Yes. A very good question from the question box. Uh, it was a very good question. You can go and ask it.

There are some more, there are some great questions in that box. Uh, some of which were just, uh, plain inappropriate. But anyway, uh, we won't go there. So, uh, Erin, let me ask you another question then. Um, as you know, this show is sponsored by Aurion Media, which specializes in, uh, helping folks set up and run their own, uh, podcast.

So imagine that you have your own podcast, uh, Erin's sort of chats kind of thing. Um, and you get to interview people on your show, past, present, future people that have impacted your life. And I'm really curious who's on your guest list and why? And there's that why question?

Erin Meads: Why? Mm-hmm. , why? Hmm. I, Hmm. I would definitely, Simon Sinek would be one.

Okay. Yeah. He actually would. Yeah. It's not because of the circle of why. That's the golden circle.

Matt Edmundson: The golden circle,

Erin Meads: yeah. I just think he's, I think he's had an interesting journey. I think, you know, he's, he is, contributed a lot into the sort of, and and leadership ends and he just, I re I find he's just super interesting.

Yeah. Really. Yeah. I really, really admire his work and, um, taken a lot from that as well as Patrick Lencioni actually. So I absolutely have him as well. Um, I would have. who? Uh, I could have a whole, can I have a list or just one?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, sure. You go for it. Uh, don't let me interrupt. Fine. Yeah.

Erin Meads: Who else? Uh, I, I would actually, if I could go back in time, like, you know, obviously not here anymore, but both my grandparents actually.

Okay. I just, I don't know, you know, there's always that thing, isn't it? Of the things that you wish you'd kind of gone, been able to go back and chew the fat of the younger selves as well. Mm-hmm. , um, and lessons learned. So we have both of them on. Um, and oh, there's plenty. Plenty. You.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, well, obviously given, I'd expect nothing less.

Erin to be, I'd probably be the first person I would've thought. Exactly.

Oh, it's brilliant, brilliant. Yeah, it's um, it's one of those, isn't it?

Erin Meads: And I think it's, I love people from all walks, you know, I just think everybody has something to contribute.

Matt Edmundson: Everyone's got a story and I genuinely believe that you can. They really do. You can all, I think just about anybody on the planet would make a good guest for a podcast.

And you, as long as you know how to get that story out of them, um, granted, I know there are exceptions to the rules. Please don't write in and tell me that I was wrong because they're an exception to, I, I know. But most times, um, most times there are interesting people who have interesting stories. Um, especially, I'm really, I love talking to people that think differently to me or have a different opinion to me.

Um, and like you, I'm really curious as to why they think what they think. Um, not because I'm trying to prove them wrong necessarily, but I'm just trying to understand why did they get to where they got to? Because it helps me understand where I got to, where I got to. And I think the podcast is, is a great way to do that.

So why don't you set up, uh, Erin chats, uh, dot com, uh, automagically. Then um, then yeah, I'll definitely be a guest. Uh, uh, and I'll, I'll, I'll I'll, me and Simon, uh, Sinek yes, will be on. Patrick Lencioni will be on. No problem. Fantastic. . , that's awesome. Erin listen, it is been an absolute treat chat with you. The time has gone by incredibly quickly, as it always does when we converse.

Um, if people listening to the show wanna reach out, wanna connect with you, what is the best way to do that?

Erin Meads: That would be LinkedIn. So easy to reach out Erin Meads on LinkedIn. You'll find me. I think I'm the only one in New Zealand.

Matt Edmundson: The only Erin Meads in New Zealand.

Erin Meads: The only Erin Meads in New Zealand.

Matt Edmundson: Oh wow. Okay. Well we will of course also link to Erin in the show notes, which, uh, you can get along for free along with the transcript on our website. Uh, pushtobemore.com or of course if you're signed up to the newsletter, then it'll be winging its way to your inbox. Erin, thank you so much for being with us.

Uh, loved it, loved it, loved it. You're an absolute legend. Uh, and it's great to hear about your journey. Uh, no, it's awesome. Thanks for being on. Thanks. Uh, and thanks for coming back again in a few years time to tell us how the journey has gone.

Erin Meads: Hold me to that, give me accountability.

Matt Edmundson: absolutely, absolutely positively lutely.

So there you have it. Another fantastic conversation. Huge thanks again to Erin for joining me today. And also a big shout out to today's show sponsor Aurion Media. If you are wondering if podcasting is a good marketing strategy for your business, which I probably think it is, but that's just my opinion, uh, do connect with them at aurionmedia.com.

That's A U R I O N media dot com. We will of course link to them, uh, on the podcast website and in the show notes as well. Now, be sure to follow, push to be more wherever you get your podcast from because we have more great conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, you are awesome.

Yes you are. It's just a burden you have to bear. Erin has to bear it. I have to bear it. You've gotta bear it as well. Uh, Push to Be More is produced by Aurion Media. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Josh Catchpole, Estella Robin and Tim Johnson.

Our theme music was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the website, pushtobemore.com where you can if you haven't done so already, uh, sign up for the weekly newsletter and get all of this good stuff automagically in your inbox.

Oh, yes, that's it from me. That's it from Erin. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week. I will see you next time. Bye for now. Bye.