Today’s Guest Byron Morrison
Byron Morrison is the author of 'Maybe You Should Give Up - 7 ways to get out of your own way and take control of your life'. He's also a mindset and high performance coach who has helped CEOs, entrepreneurs and business leaders in 15 countries become who they need to be to break through to the next level of success.
1. Confronting Burnout Head-On: Byron Morrison opens up about his personal struggle with burnout, highlighting its subtle yet impactful symptoms in entrepreneurs. He underlines the importance of recognizing and addressing these symptoms to safeguard one's health, relationships, and business health.
2. Reframing Fear for Success:Learn how entrepreneurs often become hindered by their own fears, such as the fear of failure or rejection. Byron offers effective strategies to reshape these fears, motivating listeners to take decisive action towards their ambitions and overcome psychological barriers.
3. The Power of Disconnecting:In our digitally dominated era, Matt and Byron emphasize the significance of disconnecting. They explore how stepping away from technology and prioritizing family time and self-care can significantly enhance mental well-being and strengthen personal relationships.
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At Aurion Media, we're committed to helping you set up and run your own successful podcast to grow your business and impact.
"You know what? I have found running my own podcast to be really rewarding. It opens doors to amazing people like nothing else I have seen. I have built networks, made friends, and had a platform to champion my customers, my team and my suppliers. I think just about any entrepreneur, or business leader should have a podcast because it has had a huge impact on my own businesses." - Matt Edmundson.
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Byron: [00:00:00] And this is why I'm so open about the challenges that I've been through in my content is I want people to recognize that burnout is something that compounds over time, it builds up. And a lot of the time we feel like we're immune to it. Like that's not going to happen to me, and that hits you like a bus, and it can take months, if not like over a year to recover fully.
And this is why I just want people to start recognizing the signs and symptoms, because it is only a matter of time until it has a big impact, not just on your business, but your health, your family, the way that you feel, and every other aspect of your growth and life.
Matt: Welcome to Push To Be More with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. This is a show that talks about the stuff that makes life work. And to help us do just that today, I'm chatting with my guest Byron Morrison about where he's had to push through, what he does to recharge his batteries, and what does growth and more look like.
And. Dear listener, we're also going to get into his new [00:01:00] book, but that's all coming up. Oh, yes now the transcript and conversation, uh, transcript of the conversation and the notes will be available on the website pushtobemore. com Whilst you're there, make sure you sign up to the newsletter if you haven't done so already and each week we will email you the links and the notes from the show automatically.
They go direct to your inbox for free. No obligation, no hassle, no drama. It's just a great little service, if I'm honest with you. Now, this episode is brought to you by Aurion Media, which helps entrepreneurs and business leaders set up and run their own successful podcast. Why would you want to host your own podcast?
That is the question. Uh, well, if I'm honest with you, I have yet to find a tool that is so good for marketing and networking as podcasting. Uh, I have found running my own podcast to be insanely rewarding, opening doors to amazing people like nothing I have seen. I've built networks, made friends, had a [00:02:00] platform to champion my customers, my team, and my suppliers.
And I think just about any entrepreneurial business leader should have a podcast, simply because of the impact it's had on my own business. Now I appreciate this sounds great in theory, just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? But there's a whole bunch of other stuff you have to think about, like strategy, distribution, production.
I mean, the list goes on. On. And this is where Aurion Media step up to the plate. They take all of that off you so you don't have to worry about it. All you have to do is just talk to your guests. Oh yes. See I get to do what I'm good at which is talk to people and Aurion Media take care of the rest. Love it.
Love it. Love it. So if you're wondering if podcasting is a good marketing strategy for your business, do connect with them at aurionmedia. com. That's A U R I O N M E D I A. com. So that's the show's sponsor. Let's talk about today's guest. Byron Morrison is the author of a [00:03:00] book, which I just love this title.
Maybe you should. Give up. 7 ways to get out of your own way and take control of your life. Uh, he's also a mindset and high performance coach who has helped CEOs, entrepreneurs and business leaders in 15 countries become who they need to be to break through for the next. Level of Success. Byron, it's great to have you on the show, man.
How are you doing?
Byron: Hey, I'm doing really well, thanks. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me on.
Matt: Yeah, see, I know you say that, but we were talking before we hit the button, that this is like the 80th podcast you've been on recently because of the book launch. Uh, and so, were you excited to be on all 80 of those podcasts?
Byron: A lot of them have been actually really fun. And going back to the message you were pushing in your kind of sponsored post at the beginning, I've met so many incredible people.
Byron: hosts are like helping with the book launch. I've had people where we keep connecting each other. I've referred [00:04:00] clients to certain hosts, like other people have been like sending me to other podcasts.
So it's been an incredible networking opportunity and I've had so many fascinating conversations. So yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to taking a little bit of a break from it, but it has been a great experience.
Matt: So this is your last one, isn't it, on the tour, and, um,
Byron: It's one of the last ones. I think we've probably got about five or six more.
Matt: Okay, yeah, fantastic. Well, it was Dominic Gerleve who referred you to us and Dominic has also been on the show. What a legend that man is. I really enjoyed our conversation. So thank you Dominic for doing that. And if you've not heard Dominic's episode yet, do check that out.
He's on the push to be more, uh, archived. Great conversation. So Byron, let me tell you. Well, let me start by asking you that my opening, my favourite opening question, um, so you mentioned the podcast agency, uh, in the script who helps, uh, aurion Media helps businesses entrepreneurs set up their own podcast. So if you did have your own [00:05:00] podcast and you could have a guest on your show from your past or your present that has had a big influence on your life, who would you want to interview and why?
Byron: for me, if I was going to launch a podcast, the thing I would focus on is getting a host of past clients,
Matt: Mm hmm.
Byron: I've worked with a lot of incredible CEOs and leaders from around the world, who've just gone through this amazing growth, and get them to come on and talk about their experiences and what happened behind closed doors to make it happen.
So I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs and founders who... I really have great potential, but they don't really know what's involved, because I've had so many conversations behind closed doors that people can't even comprehend the challenges that have to be navigated. So I think it'd be really interesting to do something like that, just to really dive into it and just kind of pull out a lot of the golden nuggets to let people see what's actually going on and what's involved in the journey.
Matt: Yeah, that's a good answer because that's predominantly what we do on this show. We just, we just get those [00:06:00] people on the show and we ask them all kinds of awkward questions. Well, you're on now, we're going to find out. We ask all kinds of awkward questions about life. But I like that, uh, phrase behind closed doors.
That would actually, I don't know if it's already a name for a podcast, but that would be a great name for a podcast, uh, the Behind Closed Doors podcast. Um, so. If you, I mean, you've worked obviously with a bunch of past clients and some of the stuff that's go, goes on behind closed doors, what would be some of the answers that they would give you that maybe would be surprising for people?
Byron: Probably the biggest one is how lonely and stressful it is, because one example of this is there was a client I was working with last year and I remember he booked an application call to speak with me, I went on his LinkedIn and it was all smiles and awards and everything looked like it was going incredible, and he got on the conversation and he just completely broke down, he's like, over the last two years they'd grown from a team of 10 to 150, they were about to double in size again, he was like, [00:07:00] I don't know if I've got it in me.
He's like, it's taken everything out of me. I was like, everything, everyone always wants something. I'm exhausted. I'm just burnt out. I don't know if I've got anything left in the tank. And he was just, his business just felt like this mental and emotional drain. But for him, because everyone looked to him to solve their problems, he felt like he had to put on a facade.
I keep up this act to the outside world because he didn't want people to see that his internal state didn't match his external success. And I see this across the board with so many of the clients I work with. They're always bottling it up and trying to just put on this brave face and the amount of application calls I've had with people where at the end of it, they're just like, I can't believe I've said that to you.
Like I've never told anyone this and you can see on their face, like the weight of the world has been lifted because they finally just admitted how they feel. And that's why so few people understand like how lonely being an entrepreneur and running a business actually is.
Matt: Yeah. That's super powerful. Their internal state doesn't equal their external success. Um, I love that phrase that you use there. So. [00:08:00] Why do you think it is so hard for entrepreneurs, for business leaders to acknowledge that they are feeling lonely, that they are close to burnout, that their internal state is not great compared to what's going on externally?
Byron: There's a few different sides to it. The first side is obviously the superficial. When you've got social media and you need to put on this show of what's going on, like you want your clients and your customers to be like, Oh, this company's doing great. I want to go there. The other side of it is when people are looking up to you.
If you've got people around you, if you've got the responsibility to provide and support to them, a lot of the time it puts that pressure on you that you have to have it all together, you
Matt: Mm show
Byron: that you're crumbling. Because if your team starts seeing that you're suffering, they're going to start worrying that maybe their job's in jeopardy, maybe something's wrong with the business, so it puts all of that extra stress.
And then the third and probably most important one is people just don't get [00:09:00] it. Like if Whether it's your family, your friends, the people around you, unless they've been through the situation that you're in, they're not going to understand. Like their intentions might be in the right place, and they might care, but they're not going to get the drive, the stress you're under, the huge pressure to perform and deliver.
So a lot of the time it's easier just to hold it in, because you don't want to burden them with what's going on, but also even then, like anything they say is just... Like, they mean well, but they just don't fully get what you're actually going through.
Matt: Yeah, that's super powerful, man. And if you, I mean, I kind of know the answer to this question, uh, but I understand because we were talking before we hit the record button, but you yourself have experienced burnout, right?
Byron: Yeah, I've been through it a couple of times in my business and I remember one time it got so bad where I'd been pushing for months, if not years, like I was exhausted, but I just, I was my own worst enemy as I kept telling myself I've got so much to do, I can't slow down. And I remember the really scary I'd gone to visit my parents one [00:10:00] day.
I just went, took a break and went for coffee with them. And I was driving home and I couldn't remember if I'd missed my turning. Like I said, such bad brain fog. I was just driving down the motorway. I was just like, I don't know if I've like missed the turn. I've gone past a hundred times. And that for me, it was like this panic started to kick in.
It was like. If I don't do something about this, like I'm going to end up in hospital. I was just like, my health was suffering. My energy was down. I, by like 2, 3 PM most days, I just have to like lie on the couch for a bit because I couldn't focus. And I pushed myself so far that unfortunately my body was just fighting back and was like, you have no choice but to take a break now.
And this is why I'm so open about the challenges that I've been through in my content is I want people to recognize that burnout is something that compounds over time, it builds up. And a lot of the time we feel like we're immune to it. Like that's not going to happen to me, and that hits you like a bus, and it can take months, if not like over a year to recover fully.
And this is why I just want people to start recognizing the signs and symptoms, because it is only a matter of time until it has a big [00:11:00] impact, not just on your business, but your health, your family, the way that you feel, and every other aspect of your growth and life.
Matt: Yeah. That's so wise, bud. And what would you say then are some of the sort of early signs and symptoms that people need to watch out for, for burnout? I mean, how... Because it's very hard, I think, to understand that you're in it, excuse me, and most people I know that have experienced burnout say to me that it wasn't until it all started to go very wrong that they realised that they were in burnout, um, but looking back, some of the signs and symptoms, they should have noticed what they were.
Um, so what, what, what would be some of those signs and symptoms?
Byron: a lot of it is a change in the way that you feel. Like, are you struggling with energy? Are you less focused? Are you having difficulties concentrating? Are you struggling to make decisions or having brain fog where you forget things? Um, are you just losing motivation and not wanting to do things?
Because that in [00:12:00] itself is also a big red flag that burnout's kicking in. So it's just becoming aware. That something's off and like, I'd love to like throw like a really useful strategy that anyone listening could use. Because one thing I do with my private clients is I track, um, what's going on on a day to day basis.
And part of that, I use a traffic light system. So a green day is a day like a. Everything floats smoothly. Everything was great. Amber is stop start. It's kind of not great, low energy, but fine. Red is like the day you're unmotivated, you're exhausted, complete catastrophe. And what we do is we keep a snapshot of that where we track it every single day.
And what that allows us to do is take a step back and be like, okay, what's going on? Because if you have a running period of three ambers and reds in a row, or even five, then that's a sign that something's going on. You can be like, okay, what's happening here? Am I not sleeping as well? Is my diet off? Am I extra stressed?
Am I pushing myself too hard? And you can use that to recalibrate and be like okay I need to take a step back, I've had a whole week where my [00:13:00] energy's been down. I need to course correct before it gets worse. Because, as what you said previously, most people, it just hits them out of nowhere. Whereas actually, if they're tracked and monitored it, it's going to be a compounding thing for months at a time.
Where they're going to have those amber and red days. They're going to be tired, just struggling to get through. And then it just gets severe. So that's why I'm a big advocate of you need to take time to just look back and reflect and be like, okay, what's actually going on? How am I feeling? And then when it's bad, commit to tackling it, not just convince yourself you have to push through.
Matt: yeah, no I love that, there's something about that daily monitoring isn't there, that you, um, you know, you're talking about the old saying aren't you, how do you, if you throw a frog into boiling water it'll jump straight out, but if you... If you slowly boil the frog, he won't realise the temperature difference and will boil it.
It's not actually true, by the way, but, um, it's a saying that we've used for years. And just regularly monitoring the temperature around you with something like a traffic light system, I think could be, the [00:14:00] red, amber, green thing could be super. It almost sounds, Byron, like that should be an app. You know, at the end of the day, I should be able to, on an app, just go, yes, it was red, amber or green, um, and, and that app just sort of tracks what's going on, um, or do you, are you a bit more of a spreadsheet kind of a guy, I don't, I'm curious how you track it.
Byron: Well, with clients, I've got a spreadsheet tracking form that I use, and basically it's got a set of questions where they check in daily of like the challenges they went through, what threw them off their game, things that we need to address, so I can monitor it, but then we also have three tabs, one for their productivity, Their energy and then their focus so we can monitor it every day.
So that's why it's in a spreadsheet, but I've also like in one of my books, I suggest people wanting to use the traffic light system. You can just do it on your calendar if you want. Like you can drop a pin, like red, green, yellow, like you don't need. So if you want to do it in an app, you want to do on your calendar, like it doesn't matter.
Or you can even do it in a notebook. It's just like, what are you going to stick to? So I do it for clients in the spreadsheet [00:15:00] because then I can look back on a macro level of what's going on long term. But if someone wants to start doing it themselves, just think like, what is the thing that you can be consistent with?
Cause that's what matters most.
Matt: So, when you experience burnout yourself, um, and it sort of came and side swiped you, you know, sort of took you, uh, a little bit left field, um. So, how did you recover from that? What were some of the strategies that you used to emerge from that stronger than when you went in.
Byron: So with burnout, what I found is there's three things that we ultimately need to do, because a lot of the advice out there is just take a break and that might work for normal people in a job. But when you're running a business, like you could take a few weeks off, but you're going to come back straight back into the same situation.
Things aren't going to be unchanged and you're just going to go revert back to how you felt. So the first thing you need to do is reconnect with what you're doing. Like myself included, but also a lot of the clients I work with, because they're so stuck in the trenches and just trying to get through the day, [00:16:00] they lose sight of why they started.
So that's why they're just so focused on survival that it's just a drag to get through. And this is why we need to take someone back to a foundational level of what excites them to get out of bed in the morning. Has their why changed? Business Pivoted is what is actually going to get them to want to show up.
And this is why I always advise people, like, take time every morning, just look at your goals, reconnect with why you need to show up. The second thing that we need to do is create the right routines. So for me, this was really figuring out, okay, not just working from 7 p. m. till midnight. Like I needed to have structure in my days where I could prioritize self care.
I could get the right amount of sleep. I could look after myself and protect my energy. And just looking at everything from how you start your day to the things you do throughout that really allow you to release stress and actually feel at your best. And then the final one is setting the right boundaries.
Not just with other people but with yourself because as entrepreneurs and business owners We are our own worst enemies. Like we push ourselves too hard We don't [00:17:00] know when to like call it a day and we always convince ourselves you need to do more But you're never gonna catch up like that to do list as soon as you tick things off There's gonna be more
Matt: yeah, yeah,
Byron: you need to get that idea of when is enough enough and be at peace with like you're in a marathon not a sprint and it's all about longevity So I found, yeah, reconnect with your goals, focus on developing the right routines, and then set the right boundaries to actually follow through.
And that can go a long way in helping someone feel more in control.
Matt: that's really good. Super practical. So what are some of the routines that you put into place? Because obviously everyone's goals are going to be... Different. So reconnecting with your goals while you're doing what you're doing. Um, for me, I, I like to use the word purpose. You know, your calling is another good word, isn't it?
It's, it's, it feels quite deep. It feels quite like this is in my soul. This is who I am, kind of a thing. Um, but in terms of routine and structure, what were some of the things that you found worked super well for you?
Byron: One of [00:18:00] the worst things I used to do is, first thing in the morning, I'd just pick up my phone, I'd go straight into my email and look at, like, what needs my attention. And there's never anything good there. Like it's always fires, problems, or people wanting things from you. So the problem with that is you starting your day in a reactive state where you're already stressed before you even begin.
So that's why the first starting point for me was like finding a routine that eases into the day. And a lot of people I speak to are really surprised by the fact that I, as a high performance coach, I do not have an hour long morning routine. Like a lot of like the advice out there is like, you need to do all of these like meditations, all this stuff.
And that works for a lot of people. Great. For me, it doesn't like, I just need 15 minutes to get up, get a cup of tea or coffee, take the dog for a walk, get some fresh air, come in, plan my day, figure out the key things I want to get done. And then I'm good to go. So, the advice I always give to people is you need to figure out what works for you.
There is no perfect morning routine. It's all about what actually gives you energy. The other things we're looking at throughout the day, what do I do to step away? Because when you're just running a business, it's so easy [00:19:00] just to sit there for 16 hours and not stop. So, I've built in different things like going for a lunchtime walk to get some fresh air and disconnect from technology, making sure I'm going every single day to the gym and just make, there's no access to any work there, so I can mentally unwind.
Byron: Taking time in the evenings to like, I enjoy cooking. So again, getting off technology and just preparing a nice meal. And then having set times to end and not check email during that period. Because again, what I was doing in the past is before bed, one of the last things I would do is check my email and social media.
It's like, is there anything I need to respond to before I go to bed? And all that would do is put me straight back into work mode. So I'd then lie in bed, unable to sleep, worrying about stuff that needed to get done. So, a lot of this sounds really obvious from the outside, but you'd be amazed at how many people just don't do it.
Because they're just so pulled into what needs to get done, and that's where they just get in their own way.
Matt: yeah. I, I love it, I love it, I love this phrase you used, ease into the day. I'm a big proponent of when you look at nature, there [00:20:00] is a cycle to the day, there's a, there's a sort of a dawn and there's a dusk and it's not, it's not digital, it's not like, Life goes along and then boom, all of a sudden it's, it's night time.
There's this transition period we call dusk. It's a sine wave, it's not a, you know, an on off thing. But for so long I was living my life as like, it's on off. I'm work, now I'm off, and I just, my body and my brain just needs to switch off and it just would, it, sometimes it would do it, quite often it wouldn't.
And it wasn't until I got into this, Rhythm, which says, right, so I'd be a proponent of having a morning routine and a nighttime routine to something which transitions you from the day into the night. You know, you're sort of your dusk or something that transitions you in the morning. You know, your dawn type thing.
And I think it, it works really well for me. Um, this whole idea of just taking a period of time, which transitions you, which eases you from one state to the next, which, um, I think, [00:21:00] when I looked at this, um, when I was researching it, I think dusk lasts like 70 minutes, something like that. Just having a routine for about an hour, 70 minutes, which transitions you, which usually means cutting out blue light.
So, not checking your email and your, um, and your social media, for example. Made a big difference to my, to my mental health, if I'm honest with you.
Byron: It was exactly the same for me. That was why, like, the non negotiable transition in the evening is... Like, turn off the phone, shut down the laptop, put it in a different room, and then have that period where work doesn't get done, and it's like, whether it's 30, 60, 90 minutes, it's such a big impact on your mental health, because otherwise you never switch off.
Byron: wired, like every waking minute, just thinking about what's going on. And yeah, I'm a big prop like, like you, I'm a huge proponent of having something that eases into your evening in a form of routine. But you need to figure out what that looks like, and then hold yourself to it. But like, there's so much stuff you could do during that time.
[00:22:00] Like, Do some like, light yoga, some stretching. You can read a book, meditate, spend time with your family. Like whatever it is, just don't look at screens or technology. And if you are going to read a book, don't read a business book. Like read something that's not going to make you think about work.
Matt: Yeah, definitely. I learned that trick. I needed to read novels, you know, that's when I started getting into Jack Reacher and, and just easy to read novels that, um, that didn't really require, and this is no disrespect to Lee Childs who wrote Jack Reacher, um, but you know, novels that didn't really require massive amounts of brain power on my part to process.
Um, but you sort of got sort of rolled into the story, really. Now that's, that's super, super powerful. So maybe you should give up is the title of your book. So just tell us what the topic of the book is. What's, what's the book about?
Byron: Just to be clear, the book is not about giving up on your goals and dreams. Instead, it's about giving up on everything that's holding you back from achieving [00:23:00] them. Because ultimately, I found from working with so many people from around the world is that we are the biggest barriers in the way of the success that we want.
We listen to that voice in our head that causes us to overthink, to doubt ourselves, to self sabotage. So the book is all about getting out of your own way and breaking through those mental barriers so that you can finally take control of the life that you want.
Matt: So what are some of the ways maybe you talk about in the book that we're, how do we get in our own way, uh, is the question I'm, I'm asking here, Byron.
Byron: Yeah. So one of the biggest ways that this happens is as an example, fear. Like section two of the book is all about why we avoid the things that we know we need to do. Um, whether that's failure, judgment, rejection, that like worry that we're not going to be good enough. We get stuck in our own head and then don't take action.
And this is something I see all the time in entrepreneurs and business leaders. Especially, like, they don't pick up the phone to call that potential client because they're worried about getting rejected. They don't want to, kind of, launch that new project because they're worried they're going to [00:24:00] fail.
They build up all of these mental stories and it keeps them stuck. So it's all about figuring out, like, what's actually holding you back. Because if you don't overcome those... Mental blocks, you're never going to reach the growth and success that you want. So I think that's something that every single one of us deals with in one way or another.
But a lot of the time we don't even know why it's going on. We just procrastinate. Like I've been working with a guy recently who his business got stuck and he was just spending his days just scrolling through Instagram and watching YouTube videos and Doing busy work, convincing himself that he was being productive, when actually he wasn't.
And when we really broke it down, like the reason he wasn't getting traction, is he'd had various different setbacks, and he was just afraid of, like, more people were going to reject him. Like more clients were going to potentially say no. So he just shut down. But he, because he hadn't taken the time to think about it and process it, he was just convincing himself that what he was doing was important when actually it's what was holding him back.
Matt: That's... It is funny, isn't it? Because [00:25:00] you... The limiting beliefs or the limiting fears, maybe are phrases that I would be used to, you know, when you would sort of hear... You'd hear stuff from like Brian Tracy and stuff like that, and Nightingale Conan, you know, the sort of fears that hold you back. They're still there, aren't they?
They're still the most common things that mankind struggles with, is this sort of fear, this limiting belief that they're not good enough or there's something... Bad is going to happen if they do something. But it's hard to articulate, like you say, and that causes this procrastination. And it's not until we sit down and go, why am I not doing this?
And starting to dig into that, that maybe you start to uncover it, right?
Byron: Yeah, well that's the first step in that section. The second way, and this is one of my favorite things to do, is to reframe the fear. To figure out like, you have to tip the scale in the other direction. So let's say you're sat there right now and you're afraid to pick up the phone to call potential clients because you're worried you're going to get rejected.
So instead of focusing on that, we need to [00:26:00] shift it to something that's more painful. What's going to happen if you reach the end of your days and you look back, never having achieved your goals? What happens if you reach the end of the month and you haven't made enough revenue, you can't provide for your family?
What happens six months from now if you have to close down the business and you can no longer make an impact or help people? Like if you make the pain of what's going to go wrong more painful than what you need to face, then all of a sudden the fear of not doing it outweighs the fear of what could go wrong and it becomes easier to follow through.
And a lot of the time it's just taking that first step. Going back to that client example that I gave a minute ago, we just had to push him to start picking up the phone again. Once he got on and he realized that actually, If he hears a no, it's not a big deal. It's just him like going through the process.
But a lot of the time, as soon as he heard that first, yes, and got some traction, his confidence came back and he felt like he was back into his old self. So it was just building up in his mind as this catastrophe, and he was making it up into a far bigger deal than it actually was. And this is why a lot of the time you need to recognize that the life that you want is on the other side of that fear.[00:27:00]
But until you start pushing yourself to face it, you're not going to move forward and you're going to stay stuck.
Matt: The life you want is on the other side of that fear, I think is a great phrase, and I, um, uh, it's so true, so true, there are things like that that hold us back. It's interesting how you talk about reframing it in a more negative light, so, um, this is the pain of... doing the cold call this is the let's reframe that and look at the pain of if you don't do them you know what's going to happen in terms of losing the business not providing for the family and so on and so forth i've never heard it put like that normally people try and reframe in a positive light
Byron: Yeah, the reason why I went the other direction is, reframing in a positive light is great, but also it's easier to then talk yourself out of it and be like, yeah, but. And it's like, I still don't want to face this because it's uncomfortable. Like I know that that's the potential payoff. I know that by picking up the phone here, I can potentially get all this stuff in.
That's great, but it's not a big enough motivator. Whereas, actually, this is what I'm going to miss out on. [00:28:00] Because we all do far more to avoid pain than we do to find pleasure. And if you're looking at, okay, this is what's going to happen and you see all the, see the reality that you're heading towards, that can be, I found a far bigger push to actually get someone to follow through.
So yeah, I think while reframing the positives is great, I found it, it's not as effective as going the other direction. And I'm all about positivity. I don't want to like kick someone while they're down, but it's like, this is one of those things. It's like, we need to find what drives someone and then nail into that and push them to actually follow through with it.
Matt: yeah. No, it's fair enough, it's fair enough. It's, it's kind of making me think of, there was one time, Byron, where I was feeling particularly sorry for myself. Um, I, I'd had quite a significant accident, um, with a table saw, and I'll spare you the gory details, dear listener, but me and a table saw, we didn't see eye to eye for a little while, and um, and I had a bit of an accident, and I was, I remember sitting there in pain, feeling sorry for myself.
And, um, I [00:29:00] remember, I remember watching, and I'm going to date myself here, I was watching an episode of ER, which was a hospital drama pre Grey's Anatomy, that's how long ago it was. Um, and I remember, uh, one of the doctors being, the whole episode was about him being a volunteer in a hospital in Africa in the midst of a war zone, I think, or something.
And I just remember looking at that going, yeah, I can feel sorry for myself, but really, it's... There are definitely, you know, there are definitely people here who are a lot worse off in the world than I am. Um, I don't know if that's a good principle or not. There are some people who will say, well, you should, you know, just live in the pain of what you've got.
But for me, it was super helpful to put it into some kind of context that actually what I'm seeing and experiencing now is nowhere near as bad. What it potentially could be. It's not the end of the world. It's just, we're at 5% out of something that could really reach 100%. We're not at 95%, right? Um, and I, I just found that actually really [00:30:00] helpful.
This sort of, it's a bit like you making it more negative in a lot of ways, really helped me get out of this feeling sorry for myself, stupid that I was in, um, after my accident.
Byron: It's going to come down to like what works for the individual, but there's a key caveat to what I'm sharing as well. Like the ultimate thing is like, what can you do about it? Because a lot of people, the reason why they get stuck and I, I'm going to use this term loose sleep, that victim mindset where they're feeling sorry for themselves.
And they, a lot of that is because they're dwelling on the past. They're looking at their situation and they're feeling bad about where they are and they're beating themselves up over mistakes or things that went wrong or things they don't fear, think are fair for them. And all that does is take their focus and energy.
And that's why the book is all about shifting that from, okay, you can't change the past, but you can change your future based on the actions you take in the present. So it's all about stopping to recognize, do you know what, this is the situation I'm in regardless, what can I do about it? What action can I take to empower myself to turn it around?
Because this is where so many people [00:31:00] just get stuck in that headspace because they're just living in the past or they're living in the future worrying about things that could potentially go wrong. So it's all about just bringing it into the moment and be like, okay, This is what's going on, this is the way the cards have been dealt, what do I need to do to move forward?
That in itself is incredibly empowering. Like, when you take that moment to just be like, do you know what, what do I actually need to do about this? Like, what action can I take? Like, that for a lot of people could be exactly what they need to let go of the past and move on.
Matt: super empowering, isn't it? And I, I, I'm, as you're talking, I'm hearing, um, a chap called Ram Gidoomal in the back of my head who came on the podcast. He's a friend of mine, um, who was an immigrant, uh, from India in the 1960s into uh London. It's not, not the place you want to be, uh, uh, uh, from India.
Uh, it was not a healthy place to be. And there was a lot of circumstances that he had to deal with and live through that I will never have to face. But when you talk to him and listen to [00:32:00] him, he said the one question. They kept asking themselves is what can I do? Okay, so this is what I can't do. I can't change racism overnight in the UK where I live.
So what can I do? And he just kept asking that question, asking that question. Well, their, their family built, I, I genuinely can't remember the amount of money that their, the family built, built a business worth hundreds of millions from memory. And Um, but it was all based around this question, what can I do, so just looking at that simple question removes, it doesn't stop you being a victim, it changes your future though, isn't it?
It changes your future relationship to what happened in the past.
Byron: And that's, yeah, it's such a powerful question. It's something that we can all do because it, and the other like side I put to it as well is like what worked for you to overcome that pain, like that's fantastic that that helped you shift your perspective. But for a lot of other people, I would never want to dismiss what they're [00:33:00] going through.
I've just gained them to be like, as someone else has gone worse, stop feeling sorry for yourself. Because then that can make someone feel even worse about the situation they're in. They're like, I'm being such an idiot. Like, why am I feeling this way? Like when someone else is suffering. So that's why I'm just such a big person, like advocate of being like, okay, what can I do about this?
Like, this is the situation I'm in. I'm feeling this way. It's completely justified. I've had a knock to my confidence or this has gone wrong. But knowing that, how do I move forward? Because a lot of people become stuck for years. Like I remember like a really dark period of my life where I was like really depressed, I was really down and a lot of I was just focused on getting the day and I was just so focused on my situation and how bad it was.
That I wasn't doing anything about it. Like I was just trying just to survive. And it was only when I just took a step back, I was back. Okay. What can I actually do to get out of this? Like, how can I turn it around? That was how I broke through. Like that gave me the belief that things could get better, but it wasn't until I fully embraced that, that I could move on.
And that's why I've got so much empathy for [00:34:00] people who are struggling because like I've been there. I know how difficult it is when you feel knocked down and you're just trying to get through the day. And it's a big part of the reason why I do the work I do to try and Be that person that pushes people to be active.
You know what, regardless of what you've been through, like you've survived 100% of your worst days and you're still here, so you will make it through this, but you've got to make a decision to do something differently, to take a different action and finally start going after what you want.
Matt: yeah. How do you maintain that kind of, um, because if you're in a position where you're constantly knocked down every day, that becomes harder and harder to maintain that, that, that belief that actually you can make a difference, that you can change something, doesn't it? Because you feel like you're constantly being knocked back.
Byron: It's, this is part of the reason why I believe you have to be a special kind of crazy to be an entrepreneur.
Matt: Ha, ha,
Byron: essentially signing up for a life where every day you're going to get punched in the gut and have to get up. Because you can have your best ever day and still [00:35:00] there's going to be stuff going wrong.
Like it's every single day you just have to get... Adapted to it, and I think this is why so few people are cut out for running a business, because they just mentally and emotionally can't deal with it. So, some of the best advice I always give to people is knowing when you just need to step back and walk away.
Because at times we just get so pulled into it, and we're just like, everything's going wrong. And I had this with a client recently where he was just like, they're going through this big merger. All of these things are falling apart. He was just feeling exhausted. I was like, you need to step away. I was like, you going away for a weekend and taking some time off and just giving yourself some headspace and focusing on self care is not going to make any difference in the grand scheme of things.
Like a month from now, you're not going to care that you took that time off. But if you don't step away and you keep pushing through. Things are going to get worse. So he took the advice. He booked an Airbnb in like a city a few hours away, went there, took a weekend for himself, didn't do any work. Like he went to watch a film he wanted to do.
He like made time to [00:36:00] get a massage. He took a little bit of time and he came back refocused and he was able to then feel better and get back into it. So part of it is just knowing like, okay, I've been knocked down here and giving yourself permission just to step back slightly. Like we all have days where we just feel out of it and sometimes you just need to be like, you know what, I need to process this and move through it and that.
It's just sometimes a lot how you can pick yourself back up rather than just trying to push through in the moment.
Matt: yeah, nah, powerful. Do you journal, Byron?
Byron: I do, the same tracking form that I use with my clients is something that I do for myself, and the reason being it's essentially just a set of questions that break down how the day went. It forces you to think of, okay, this happened, this is the challenges I face, this is what's going on, that I need to be aware of, the intentions I need to set, and things that are throwing me off my game at the moment.
So it's essentially a form of journaling, like I found that's what works for me. But I'm a big advocate of it because I don't think that we take enough time to slow down and process what happens. [00:37:00] Uh, just get our thoughts out and really connect with what's happening. And for a lot of people like that can be so enlightening to give them clarity on what's really going on.
Matt: yeah, absolutely. This idea of, I don't know if you've read books like, um, uh, Essentialism, uh, The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. Um, uh, Take a, I think I've just read Take a Day Off, I think that's what it's called by Bob Maxwell. Um, so there's, there's a lot of books out there at the moment about creating rest or as they used to call it in the old Jewish days, Sabbath, I still, the Jewish still call it Sabbath, don't they?
But that Sabbath day, that rest day, that sort of day where you just unplug and, and just take some time out of the schedule. One of the things that I've noticed, I think, um, in myself and in Busy Entrepreneurs is the ability to do that is quite tricky and difficult just to, just to take that sort of day of [00:38:00] rest.
They're always constantly going at a hundred miles an hour. Um, from your findings, how important, um, is rest and, and, and do you, are you an advocate of taking that, that day, um, or have you got a slightly different practice going on?
Byron: Can't emphasize enough how important it is. Like it's one of the biggest things that I'm an advocate for and um, I actually took this to a little bit of an extreme last year, because we've been in this two year campaign for this book, like, truth be told, coming into last December, I was exhausted, like, I was a bit, been pushing, I was like, I need a break, so I actually booked a trip to Cancun, and I made the commitment that I was going to leave my phone at home, so I essentially went away, and in total, I took 17 days off, where I didn't have access to email, social media, Or even my phone.
Like, my girlfriend stored her phone with her, so we had, it's like, we, there were emergencies and stuff, we had all that, but I found for the first time in 10 years, I actually switched off. Like, it was really uneasy for the first few hours, but [00:39:00] after that, I just felt so relaxed. Like, I stopped worrying about problems.
I, instead of thinking I'd work constantly, I'd regularly have periods where I think, Oh, I haven't thought about work for a few hours. This has never happened before. Like, I stopped worrying about problems and things going on. I was actually connected. I was having fun. And it was the best thing I've ever done for my mental health.
And since then, one of the negotiable, non negotiables coming into this year that I made is having a tech free Saturday. Where, turn the phone off, disconnect, like, truth be told, it hasn't been fully as strict in the last couple of weeks just because of the book campaign and getting ready, but once this is done, it's something that I will, like, go back to, and we also have a non negotiable week where we go on Adventure Day Saturdays, and we'll go and explore, we'll try something new, like, just get out the house, and it's something I really advocate for, just getting off the phone, Like get away from social media, get off email and just go and enjoy life.
Like that mental break is often what you need to have your greatest ideas. Like so often you don't get the inspiration when you sat there trying to force it [00:40:00] out, but when you take a step back and you allow yourself to process and think, that's when you get your real breakthroughs and your body just needs it.
Like from a longevity standpoint, you need that time to unwind. So yeah, something like I can't like push more as an idea. I'm such a big advocate and proponent of it.
Matt: Mm. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm with you. Tech Free Saturdays. I came across a study, uh, last week. Uh, I was looking at, um, this idea of the family meal, you know, the shared family meal. I was really curious to see what the impact of that is, because both in the UK and in the us. Uh, I think like 50, 60% of people think the family meal, the shared family meal of an evening is super important.
Right. We're going to have the evening meal. Um, of course in places like France and Italy, these meals can go on for like an hour, two hours. I mean, it's a whole, you know, it's a whole experience that we don't typically do in the UK or the U S. Um, and so it's becoming less and less of an event. [00:41:00] There was a study done in 2019 in Australia.
Um, Where they discovered that if you had a shared family meal without, and this was the important thing, you had to not have screen. You couldn't have a shared family meal in front of the TV. And you couldn't have your phone at the table, right, so no screens, but if you had, um, a shared family meal where you connected, uh, there was a drop in the divorce rate of 30%.
Now, this is a phenomenal number when you think about, you know, how to reduce the likelihood of divorce by 30%. Just eat a meal together for at least 30 minutes and don't have your phone or TV on. Oh, okay. But it's that, it's that connection. And that's switching off, but connecting with those around you, those that you love, seems to have quite a big impact on your mental health, on your marriage, uh, on your relationship with your kids.[00:42:00]
It's a big deal, right?
Byron: I haven't seen that study, but I 100% believe it, like, because in the digital world, we're more connected than ever, but we're also more disconnected, because we're not, like, spending quality time with people around us. I've got a CEO that I started working with recently, like, this is one of his big problems, because he's running, like, a growing company in the UK, but they're, like, have got a presence in 26 countries, so it's a global business on multiple time zones, so he's just never switching off.
And he's found that... He's been disconnected from his kids, like even when he's there, he's like mentally checked out and attached to his phone and then he sees them on their devices all the time and he's like, how can I tell them to get off their device if I'm online? So one of the things that we actually, when we started working together, was he set a new non negotiable, Monday to Thursday, they have family meal time at the table, and phones have to be left in the other room, and he says it's been transformative for his relationship with his wife and his kids, because they're there and they're talking and they're engaged, and then on the weekends they can do what [00:43:00] they want, they can go out for dinner, they can watch a movie together, whatever it is, but it's just finding that balance, like it doesn't have to be all or nothing, And that's why I love the Monday to Thursday way of setting that up, because then you still feel like you can have that flexibility.
But yeah, it's something I like advise to so many clients I work with, to have more opportunities to leave your phone away. Like put it in another room, turn it off, like the world's not going to fall apart if you aren't available for 30 minutes. Whereas your relationship could completely transform there if you do that daily.
Byron: with like running a business like the people around you feel neglected like when it's obviously it's your big passion your purpose That's what takes up most of your headspace. If you don't set those boundaries It's something's gonna give and that was why I said earlier like the biggest boundary after set is with yourself It's like making a decision of these are the things that matter to me What's getting in the way and what can I do to remove it so that I can focus on that quality time not quantity Because time [00:44:00] is a scarce resource, but making sure the time that you do have is really like connected and actually effective.
Matt: fantastic, fantastic. But listen, I'm aware of time, so what I'm going to do is take a slightly different tact. I'm going to turn to the question box. Done, done, done. So this is where I'm going to flick through the questions. You are going to tell me when to stop. Wherever I stop, that's going to be the question that we ask.
Byron: Moment of truth.
Matt: moment of truth. So, um, this is a question that's been asked before. Uh, Caroline Polson asked this one actually, uh, in her episode. For you, what would be a good death?
Byron: going in my sleep, not knowing what happened. I think one of the things that really terrifies me is like the health problems we have and having like an extended thing of just being really sick for a long period of time. So. Yeah, just [00:45:00] having a peaceful one where no real pain or not knowing what happened.
Like, I think that's probably, that's something all of us, uh, yeah, I'd be surprised if that wasn't most people's answer. of a grim way to end it.
Matt: it is. I think it's a fascinating question. I'm trying to rack my brain to remember how Caroline answered the question because I think it's a really fascinating question when you, because again, this is coming back to something you said earlier. When I, when I get to the end of my life, um, You see what the way you've answered it, I would, I would say is a good way to die.
I dunno if I'd say that's a good death. I think for me, a good death would be looking back over my life going, I gave it a good shot. Um, you know, and you, and you've sort of, whenever that is, whenever, you know, whenever God calls time out on, on this time on earth, I look back and I go, you know what? I gave it a good shot.
I loved my wife, I loved my kids. I worked hard, [00:46:00] but I enjoyed. As much as I could about life, you know, and I, and I think, um, I think, and I, I sort of feel like I, I, I did whatever I was put on here to do. I think for me, it would be bad if, if I look back and go, I should have dot, dot, dot. Do I mean? And just have a
Byron: I'll actually change my answer on that one then because this is ultimately, yeah, I was just thinking of like how would I want to go, but yeah, like, like ultimately with the new book, like this is the message behind it because what I talk about in the final chapter is like after my own journey of transformation and my dad's cancer and everything that I went through.
Like, I had this realization that the harsh reality is far too many people are going to wake up at 65, they're going to look back at the life that they could have lived and the chances they didn't take, and they're going to be thinking, what if? And that's why for me personally, what scares me more than failure, than rejection, than not getting it right, is regret.
And that's why the whole purpose of the book is to push someone to a point where [00:47:00] they start going for the things that they want, to create a life where they don't reach the end of their days, wishing they did things differently. Because I don't know if you've seen it, but there was that study done on the five regrets of the dying, where they were
Matt: Yes, I did. Incredible stuff.
Byron: people like what's good, they look back on the end of their life and all of the things they wish they could do differently.
And I think putting off your happiness is one thing that all of us do, and not going off the things we truly want. And yeah, so for me, it's like being able to, and that's, I use that in my every day now as well, because I was asked recently, like, what does success mean for you, and when I was younger, it was money and finances and status and stuff, but like, success for me now is knowing that I spent my days the way that I wanted to.
I did work that made a difference, that I help people, that I can go to bed feeling good about how I spent my time with the people I wanted to spend it with. I think that's ultimately a fulfilling life and it's fueled by that fear of regret and not wanting to look back one day and not be able to do it differently.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah,[00:48:00]
Byron: So I guess that's a better, that's a better answer than going in my sleep pain free.
Matt: Well, do all of that and then go in your sleep pain free is, um, is, is, is a good way to go. Byron, listen, how do we, uh, how do we, uh, find the book? Where's a good place to get that? Where would we buy that if we want to?
Byron: So the book's available anywhere that you can get books. So whether it's Amazon, Barnes Noble, Waterstones, like if they sell books, you can get a copy there, or you can find out more on my website, ByronMorrison. com and I'm also really active on social media like LinkedIn and Instagram, just search for author Byron Morrison, I put out daily content and videos and everything else on taking control of your life.
Matt: Fantastic, fantastic. We will of course link to all of those Byron in the show notes as well which you can get along for free at pushtobemore. com or if you subscribe to the newsletter that's going to be coming straight to your inbox. All right, which is good news. But listen, thanks for coming on the show, man.
And thanks for sharing some of the insights from your [00:49:00] book. Loved, loved, loved that conversation. Um, it's so uplifting and you, you just come away feeling inspired and that actually life can be different. And, um, you know, we can do some pretty good stuff. So love it. Appreciate it. And I wish you every success with the book too, buddy.
Byron: Thanks for having me on today.
Matt: That's great, huge thanks again to Byron for joining me today. Also a big shout out to today's show sponsor, Aurion Media. If you're wondering if podcasting is a good marketing strategy for your business, do connect with them at aurionmedia. com. That's A U R I O N Media. com. Now be sure to follow Push To Be More wherever you get your podcasts from, because we've got yet more great conversations lined up, and I don't want you to miss any of them.
And in case no one has told you yet today, dear listener, let me be the first to tell you. You are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Byron has to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. [00:50:00] Now, Push To Be More is produced by aurion Media. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favourite podcast app.
The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon Estella Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak. Our theme music is by Josh Edmundson. And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or the show notes or get any of those links... Head to the website pushtobemore. com. That's it from me, that's it from Byron.
Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.